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Greedfall


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#1 Virgil Vox

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 02:46 PM

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Playing Greedfall reminds me of playing Dragon Age or Mass Effect. It isn't quite as good as those games because it doesn't have the budget but it feels just as ambitious.

It is created by the same company that made The Techomancer, a flawed but really fun gem that I loved. It does feel like the developer, Spiders, learned from their mistakes and have done a lot to correct those here. Like capes. If you show that your character can have a cape then you better be able to have a cape. Here there are plenty of capes.

The main character is de Sardet, the niece/nephew of the ruler of the Congregation of Merchants. He (I made my character a male for this play through hoping there would be a good gay romance like there was in Technomancer) is about to become an ambassador and travel to the newly discovered island of Teer Fradee, which has already been colonized by the other two main powers on the Old Continent; the Bridge Alliance and Theleme.

The Alliance and Theleme are at war with one another and have been on the island for a decade or better. The Congregation has only established a presence there a few years back. One of the main reasons everyone is interested in the island is that they hope it contains a cure for a disease called the malichor which is killing scores of people all over the Old Continent.

Just like in The Technomancer, the world building here is fantastic. The Congregation is like a mix of Great Britain and France. Theleme are essentially Spaniards with a Catholic like religion who see it as their mission to convert everyone to their religion and believe Teer Fradee is a holy place. The Alliance is made up of several countries that banded together to advance science and knowledge. They are at war with Theleme.

Then there are the Nauts, basically a sea faring people with their own customs and hierarchy that are powerful in their own right. Lastly there are the natives of Teer Fradee themselves who now have to contend with three rival civilizations setting up shop in their homeland.

Part of your job is to juggle these factions as best you can, especially since they all have differing goals.

There is a lot to love here. The combat is a blast. You pick a classification at the start of the game but you can apply skill points to anything. I picked being a mage but also unlocked the ability to wield long swords. It is a pretty effective combination. I am waiting until I can unlock some more powerful spells. The one I have now, stasis, is a lot of fun.

There is a lot of customization. There are plenty of different armor sets and weapons to buy. Most of these can be upgraded. You can level up your combat skills as well as character attributes like charisma, science knowledge, intuition, lock picking, etc. You can upgrade your overall health bar and magic bar.

You have five companions total (though I haven't gotten the last one yet) and can travel with two of them. The companions are a pretty good mix, much like in The Technomancer. I have already started on personal quests for two of them. What I like is that they will comment on quests I receive and offer up solutions. They will sometimes bicker with each other as well. It is still early in the game so I'll comment on them more in a later post.

The quests are nice and varied. What I like is that they usually go in unexpected directions or will link up to another quest later on. In one quest I exposed an alchemist for a fraud only to learn he was banished from the Alliance from speaking truth to power and has done what he can to make a living. I was given several options to help him, turn him over, or just forget about it and let him figure it out.

One quest wanted me to sneak into a Naut warehouse and get a box of contraband. I could try sneaking in dressed as a Naut but it I was caught it would lower my standing with the Nauts and might make working with them harder later on. I decided to put that quest on the back burner until I could come up with a way to sneak in. Well, another quest had my Naut companion ask me to sneak into Naut HQ to steal information about his past. He offered a way to do it as well: Drug the guards with a sleeping potion. I managed to do that and got the information. I then realized that the guards at the warehouse were also knocked out so I got the contraband.

The contraband itself fed into two other missions which deal with corruption in the Coin Guard (the military force of the Congregation). One mission was from Kurt, my Coin Guard companion, who is investigating the death of a young man he recruited which leads to the discovery of phantom squad among the military. The other quest deals with merchants being terrorized by the Guards for protection money and it seems like the phantom squad might be a part of that as well.

It isn't all good. The fact that it isn't a triple-AAA title shows. A lot of the same building interiors are used though I give them points for at least rearranging furniture and trying their best to make the same interiors look different. The lip syncing is a little off as well which can be annoying.

There's also this weird thing that happens in fights. I guess if you get too far away from the main area where you encounter the enemies then the enemies dis-engage and wander away. They also get all their health back, something that you do not. It has happened several times and made the fights rather annoying.

There is also a fair amount of back-tracking which can get old. Thankfully not as much as in The Technomancer and there aren't the same set of enemies in the same locations that made back tracking tedious and a nightmare so that's something. To be fair, I have only discovered a few locations on the island yet and it seems like there are quite a bit more to find.

Greedfall may not exactly have the polish a big budget RPG does but it does have an engrossing story and world, characters I like, fun combat, and lots of ambition. I'll probably update this thread from time to time as I continue playing.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#2 Niko

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 10:30 PM

Ah, I remember being intrigued by your thoughts on The Technomancer - pretty cool that Greedfall is of that "lineage", as it were.  Greedfall itself has been getting some decent buzz, and your description of the story elements make it sound pretty cool.  I'll definitely check it out at some point.
- Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.    (Matthew 25:40)

- Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart.  (Proverbs 3:3)

#3 Virgil Vox

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 11:01 AM

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Ah, I remember being intrigued by your thoughts on The Technomancer - pretty cool that Greedfall is of that "lineage", as it were.  Greedfall itself has been getting some decent buzz, and your description of the story elements make it sound pretty cool.  I'll definitely check it out at some point.

It is a really fun game and as I said a big improvement over The Technomancer (though I still love that game and need to play it again soon). I think you would enjoy it Niko.

I’m still playing, and being impressed by, Greedfall.

I now have all five companions. I like them all. At first I thought Petrus might be a lame character but he has grown on me.

I’ll do a quick rundown of all five of them. Kurt is a Coin Guard who has trained main character de Sardet and his cousin Constantin for several years. He is a man of honor and keeps a level head.

Siora is a native on Teer Fradee and decides to travel with your group because she thinks it is the best way to protect her people. She is strong and has some great magical abilities. It is useful having her around when interacting with the various clans.

Vasco is a Naut captain who gets assigned by a Naut Admiral to shadow de Sardet and help him out. Vasco doesn’t like this but he goes along with it. He has an interesting back story in that he wasn’t born a Naut; he was given to the Nauts by his family as part of a contract. He is also the only romance-able option for a gay male de Sardet. I like Vasco and his companion quest and romance were good but I felt that the romance between the main character in The Technomancer and Andrew was done a lot better.

Aphra is a member of the Bridge Alliance and is studying native flora and fauna to try and find a cure for the malichor. Her fellow scientists were captured by a native tribe and she joins your party to help save them. She is then ordered to stay with you. I like her a lot. She is intelligent and feisty.

The last is Petrus. He is part of Theleme but he was an ambassador to the Congregation and so he knew your character years ago. While he is very religious he isn’t a fanatic like some of his people.

It is an interesting mix of companions and they all don’t like each other. I took Petrus with me on the quest to save Aphra and he told her that he would gladly have let her die if it had been up to him. (Their respective countries are at war with one another). Siora isn’t fond of Aphra’s people since they are openly waging war against the natives. It keeps things interesting and makes you think about what companions you should take with you on any given quest.

The world building continues to impress. At first the various native clans all seemed similar but after doing a few quests and getting to know them better I see just how different they all are. Some clans are openly waging war against the colonists and want to drive them from the island completely. Others are neutral and are just trying to get by in these new circumstances. Still others welcome the colonists as a source of new ideas and money. The natives aren’t just a monolithic culture and that is refreshing.

Combat is a joy, especially as I’ve unlocked more skills. I like that even though you choose a class at the start of the game you aren’t limited to it at all. I have mainly focused on magic but I have also upgraded long swords and just recently unlocked guns. It makes fighting more versatile and gives me more options in battle.

Mainly I am fighting the various beasts that roam the island. There are enough different types of beasts and enough variations in the types that it usually keeps things from getting stale. However if you spend enough time in one area you end up fighting the same creatures over and over.

The island isn’t really open world. Instead it is divided up into large hubs, much like in Dragon Age: Inquisition. They aren’t as large as what you would find in DA:I but they look gorgeous, are visually distinct from one another, and are fun to explore.

The same can be said about the three main cities. The Congregation city is the newest so it still looks like a work in progress with building materials all around and half finished buildings. The Bridge Alliance city is the oldest and looks suitably impressive. It is also very maze like. The Theleme city is beautiful and there are religious icons and buildings everywhere.

Customization is quite good. One complaint I had about The Technomancer was that eventually all my companions wore the same clothing because it was the best around. Here though there is plenty of variety so that I can have my companions wearing different but still strong armor. Most armor pieces along with weapons can also be upgraded.

The quests are still a lot of fun. What I like is that there aren’t really any superfluous quests that exist just to pad out the game. Every quest advances either the main story of fleshes out the world or the inhabitants. There are no fetch quests and the one time I could have fetched X number of X items it was only an option. I had several more options as to how do finish the quest.

I do wish it was easier to gain money. Most quests don’t come with a monetary reward. I can get money looting from human foes but it still isn’t a lot. I mainly have money from selling extra items I loot or from opening up the various crates around the map.

Greedfall has apparently done really well in sales which makes me happy. It is a good game that deserves to do well. I hope this means we either get a sequel or a whole new RPG from this same team.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#4 Virgil Vox

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Posted 23 December 2019 - 10:56 AM

I have finished Greedfall and I can say it was a really fun game with a great story and a world that I wouldn’t mind visiting again.

Something that I really appreciated about the game was the way the quests would weave in and out of each other. I mentioned the quests about corruption in the Coin Guard. Well, that exploded into a main quest when they attempted a coup on the island that I had to put down. My companion Kurt was the one who informed the characters of what was happening. It makes me wonder what might have happened had I not gotten Kurt on my side.

The nice thing was that ending the coup didn’t end the Coin Guard story line. I received several sub-quests from Kurt to help him put an end to the corruption once and for all and to smoke out the last surviving members of the coup.

The main plot, which centered around finding a cure for the malichor, paled in comparison to several of the side-quests. That is, until de Sardet’s cousin Constantin came down with the disease. That gave the quest some urgency and, in the final act, introduced several really good surprises.

The combat remained fun, though after a while it did become rather rote since I was encountering the same enemies over and over. Thankfully once the final act started the enemies became stronger and more varied making combat fun and stressful.

There were some far reaching decisions I had to make and I’m happy with how most of them turned out. There is an epilogue that shows how your characters end up and what happens to the various factions and overall I think I did a good job. There was one faction that I wasn’t able to win over to my side unfortunately. There are also a few decisions I’d be interested to change and see what happens.

Greedfall fixes a lot of the mistakes from The Technomancer and is a much more polished game. It still suffers from a smaller budget and design team but the interesting characters, world-building, combat, quest design, and customization make up for any shortcomings like the inside of buildings all looking the same.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#5 Niko

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:12 PM

I've started playing this now, and so far, I'm enjoying it, too.  I really like the worldbuilding and having the main character be a diplomat, so it's actually his *job* to take on all these missions to maintain the balance of powers.  I haven't gotten the last companion yet, but also agree that the use of them is quite good so far.  Having them jump into conversations where their POV is pertinent, or being able to let them speak to a situation that they can have a persuasive argument on makes for a pretty good sense of actually having them participating in the game as more than canon fodder.  I also always enjoy games where they let you have different solutions depending on how many points you've put into different categories of skills, so this is satisfying in that regard.

On the "less good" side, this game certainly shows the line between AAA games vs. not.  A high-end AAA can make its fetch-quests feel like a natural extension of a game's general exploration, but in this one, I'm at a point where I'm not feeling like it's worth my time to explore the maps until I have a reason to.  Usually, with this sort of hub-type "open" world, I like to clear all the fog off the map before heading to my target destination, but in this one, any place that looks interesting on the maps doesn't actually have anything interesting THERE until the plot has a reason for something to be there.  It's disappointing to investigate some cool dead-end on the map and only finding an empty campsite that I figure will have someone there to talk to when a quest calls for it.
- Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.    (Matthew 25:40)

- Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart.  (Proverbs 3:3)

#6 Virgil Vox

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 01:42 PM

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I've started playing this now, and so far, I'm enjoying it, too.  I really like the worldbuilding and having the main character be a diplomat, so it's actually his *job* to take on all these missions to maintain the balance of powers.  I haven't gotten the last companion yet, but also agree that the use of them is quite good so far.  Having them jump into conversations where their POV is pertinent, or being able to let them speak to a situation that they can have a persuasive argument on makes for a pretty good sense of actually having them participating in the game as more than canon fodder.  I also always enjoy games where they let you have different solutions depending on how many points you've put into different categories of skills, so this is satisfying in that regard.

I'm glad you are playing it and enjoying it. I agree with everything you said here. The characters are great and are put to good use. They can impact your game depending on who you are traveling with and some of them are not welcome in certain areas of the game based on their faction.

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On the "less good" side, this game certainly shows the line between AAA games vs. not.  A high-end AAA can make its fetch-quests feel like a natural extension of a game's general exploration, but in this one, I'm at a point where I'm not feeling like it's worth my time to explore the maps until I have a reason to.  Usually, with this sort of hub-type "open" world, I like to clear all the fog off the map before heading to my target destination, but in this one, any place that looks interesting on the maps doesn't actually have anything interesting THERE until the plot has a reason for something to be there.  It's disappointing to investigate some cool dead-end on the map and only finding an empty campsite that I figure will have someone there to talk to when a quest calls for it.

I was of two minds about that. On one hand I liked that everything in the world existed to further either the main quest or the various side-quests for your companions. The map wasn't littered with redundant fetch quests and random people you will never interact with again. It was a fresh of breath air from other RPGs that seem to fill their world with stuff just to have a lot of stuff in there and not because they really need it.

That said, I would have liked at least a few side-quests or something in the areas to make exploration feel more worthwhile. I mainly explored to find the skill shrines and to fight enemies to help my character level up.

Have you romanced anyone yet? I'm curious to see if the other romances are more involved than the one I had with Vasco. To be fair though I loved the romance with Andrew in the Technomancer and how it built gradually over the course of the game and it would be hard to compete with that.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#7 Niko

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 03:11 AM

This weekend was was the first one in 2020 where I had almost two solid days where I had no other commitments and no mandatory overitme at work, so I wallowed a bit on gameplay.  I've just gotten done with meeting "something-something-frichtamen" and my quest log has cleared out to only the main story quests, the exploration quests for camps/letter-finding, and the missions.  I'm not really shooting for platinum or anything, so I probably won't go back over the maps with fine-tooth comb for those exploration and mission ones.

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I was of two minds about that. On one hand I liked that everything in the world existed to further either the main quest or the various side-quests for your companions. The map wasn't littered with redundant fetch quests and random people you will never interact with again. It was a fresh of breath air from other RPGs that seem to fill their world with stuff just to have a lot of stuff in there and not because they really need it.

Yeah, I changed my mind about the quests a bit.  The way that the core of the game was built around the quests for the different factions and/or companion quest, and how the quest for each faction/person formed a chain of events that was an overall story arc, was really well done.  I especially liked the coin guard arc and how that evolved out of Kurt's loyalty quests and also tied into the "main" story event of the coup attempt.  That was really, really good.  Also how it felt like my relationship with the various native tribe leaders evolved not just from their own quests, but the various things I did to help smaller people from their tribes worked well.  By the time I had to give someone the crown, I knew exactly who to pick due to my previous experiences with them.  I didn't need the little blurbs to tell me what sort of king they'd be... I had a sense of it from my interactions with them throughout the game.

The main question in my head right now is whether the plotlines for Theleme and the Bridge are going to feel "complete".  The leaders in both of those factions seem "to good to be true" in how they keep claiming that the horrible things being done by their underlings weren't their idea.  The individual quests were satisfying, but I don't feel like I've gotten closure on them yet.  But I've currently been asked to help each of them deal with some attacks, so seems like there's still time on that front.

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Have you romanced anyone yet? I'm curious to see if the other romances are more involved than the one I had with Vasco.

What this game has barely counts as romance at all, imo.  You had a series of dialog exchange that the player may not have really even understood were driving toward a romance or not (and might have skipped altogether?) and then suddenly, wham, fully-clothed-sexy-times and done.  When Vasco asked to spend time with me, I had literally no idea what I'd done/said to trigger romantic option with him (and he was the one I was least interested in, so I said no).  With Kurt, I think I lost my shot with him in, like, the very first dialog option of the game when I opted not to be flirtatious.  He never showed any interest the rest of the game.  I specifically tried to romance Aphra and we got to a point of discussing our feelings, but she never triggered the date night.  So by the time Siora offered, I took her up on it as my last chance.  

The romance is a good example of a general problem with the game that it's just lacking some connective tissue, I think?  A lot of times, we would jump into a big story reveal cut-scene and it would be really disorienting because it felt like it came out of nowhere and I just sat back going "OK, I guess this is happening now".  :)   It isn't in every case, and it hasn't stopped me from enjoying, but I *have* spent a fair amount of time trying to pin down in my own head what they could have done differently to make things feel less abrupt.  I feel like it could have used a bit more fleshed out conversation trees where the player-character got to give some of his own thoughts.  Like, whoa, big revelation about his parentage... it would've been nice if his friends had asked him how *he* was handling it and what he was thinking, or something.   Or how the story just dumps us right into everyone calling as on el manawi, without anyone before that ever acknowledging the mark on his face.  I felt like, for him having grown up with this mark, to realize that it had some connection to the island must've been weird for him, but for all that we're playing the game through his eyes, we never get to express our/his thoughts on some of these big events.   I think that might have helped to flesh things out a bit on the relationship front, if there was more give-and-take in the conversations, even if it had no real impact beyond color commentary.
- Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.    (Matthew 25:40)

- Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart.  (Proverbs 3:3)

#8 Niko

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 08:43 AM

Finished this up.  I'll remember it fondly, and definitely be interested in future games from this developer.

I surprised myself with being genuinely torn between the choices at the end of the game.  On the one hand, the "good" choice is obviously to side with whatsit-frichtamen and save life as we know it. But Constantin's closing argument - that blah-blah-frichtamen was just another god clinging to power - was surprisingly compelling.  I also think my awareness of how the island's situation mirrors real-world colonialism had an impact.  As the hero, I did the diplomatic thing of getting everyone to join forces and live happily ever after, but the question of how much harmony there can be long term was weighing on me by the end of the game, so Constantin's offer of a different path was tempting.  I chose the "good" path, but definitely want to go hunt up a video of the alternate ending.
- Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.    (Matthew 25:40)

- Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart.  (Proverbs 3:3)

#9 Virgil Vox

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 10:44 AM

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Yeah, I changed my mind about the quests a bit.  The way that the core of the game was built around the quests for the different factions and/or companion quest, and how the quest for each faction/person formed a chain of events that was an overall story arc, was really well done.  I especially liked the coin guard arc and how that evolved out of Kurt's loyalty quests and also tied into the "main" story event of the coup attempt.  That was really, really good.  Also how it felt like my relationship with the various native tribe leaders evolved not just from their own quests, but the various things I did to help smaller people from their tribes worked well.  By the time I had to give someone the crown, I knew exactly who to pick due to my previous experiences with them.  I didn't need the little blurbs to tell me what sort of king they'd be... I had a sense of it from my interactions with them throughout the game.

Agree with all of this. I loved the Coin Guard plot and how it slowly grew from basically a few bad eggs and a personal mission for Kurt to something that threatened the entire island. I was also surprised at how dark Kurt's story was allowed to go since it was hinted that his superiors raped him and other Coin Guard recruits during their brutal training.

I also knew who I wanted to have the crown but I felt that the game did a good job of displaying why several tribal leaders had a legitimate claim to the throne and that their viewpoints were just as valid.

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What this game has barely counts as romance at all, imo.  You had a series of dialog exchange that the player may not have really even understood were driving toward a romance or not (and might have skipped altogether?) and then suddenly, wham, fully-clothed-sexy-times and done.  When Vasco asked to spend time with me, I had literally no idea what I'd done/said to trigger romantic option with him (and he was the one I was least interested in, so I said no).  With Kurt, I think I lost my shot with him in, like, the very first dialog option of the game when I opted not to be flirtatious.  He never showed any interest the rest of the game.  I specifically tried to romance Aphra and we got to a point of discussing our feelings, but she never triggered the date night.  So by the time Siora offered, I took her up on it as my last chance.

If you are playing as a male de Sardet than you can't romance Kurt. The only male/male pairing is with Vasco.

The romance did leave me feeling cold. I just felt that they had a better grasp of romance in The Technomancer and allowed the romance to slowly build over the course of the game. Here it was all rushed and up front.

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Finished this up.  I'll remember it fondly, and definitely be interested in future games from this developer.

I'm so glad you liked it. I will definitely keep my eye on this developer and whatever new game they create. They have shown remarkable improvement between The Technomancer and Greedfall. They kept what worked and changed what didn't. Hopefully with Greedfall doing as well as it did they can have a bigger budget for their next game.

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I surprised myself with being genuinely torn between the choices at the end of the game.  On the one hand, the "good" choice is obviously to side with whatsit-frichtamen and save life as we know it. But Constantin's closing argument - that blah-blah-frichtamen was just another god clinging to power - was surprisingly compelling.  I also think my awareness of how the island's situation mirrors real-world colonialism had an impact.  As the hero, I did the diplomatic thing of getting everyone to join forces and live happily ever after, but the question of how much harmony there can be long term was weighing on me by the end of the game, so Constantin's offer of a different path was tempting.  I chose the "good" path, but definitely want to go hunt up a video of the alternate ending.

I did like that they didn't portray Constantin as pure evil, even though he basically was. Like you said, he had a compelling argument. Yeah, the real world colonialism parallels definitely shaped how I played the game because I wanted to respect the various tribes since this was their land and the three nations really didn't have a claim to be there.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#10 Niko

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:46 PM

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If you are playing as a male de Sardet than you can't romance Kurt. The only male/male pairing is with Vasco.

Oh, boo.  Kurt would've been my preference.  I had originally started the game as a woman and only got a little past the intro section before I decided it didn't quite feel right and restarted as a dude.  I'd given Kurt the flirty response in my female start and got a clearly-interested response.  Opted for the non-flirty response the second time, but the fact that the prompts were the same made me assume that he was available to both.  Bummer.
- Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.    (Matthew 25:40)

- Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart.  (Proverbs 3:3)

#11 Virgil Vox

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 08:15 AM

View PostNiko, on 23 March 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

Quote

If you are playing as a male de Sardet than you can't romance Kurt. The only male/male pairing is with Vasco.

Oh, boo.  Kurt would've been my preference.  I had originally started the game as a woman and only got a little past the intro section before I decided it didn't quite feel right and restarted as a dude.  I'd given Kurt the flirty response in my female start and got a clearly-interested response.  Opted for the non-flirty response the second time, but the fact that the prompts were the same made me assume that he was available to both.  Bummer.

Vasco and Siora are the only characters that can be romanced by a male and female de Sardet.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman


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