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[OA] Overthinkers Anonymous notes on ST: Picard S01E03

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#1 Orpheus

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:14 PM

[02:44] "All synthetic life-forms are banned, throughout the Federation, effective immediately. All active units are dismantled and all research is halted"

I didn't make this connection immediately on first watching, but Dahj said she'd been hired as a "Fellow of Artificial Intelligence and Quantum Consciousness at the Daystrom Institute". Per Picards AND Jurati there wouldn't be any openings for that job title at the Daystrom Institute except in Jurati's lab!

Agnes would have recruited, hired, or at least approved Dahj. That's how she ("not a forensics maven") quickly detected a faked persona that the Daystrom Institute missed. In this context, she WAS The Daystrom Institute that approved Dahj--and would have met her by the end of episode 1 were it not for the attack.

Is it possible Agnes didn't know? Was the attack scheduled to it designed to prevent her meeting Dahj? Maybe, but the lengths she went to hide this key fact leave her no credibility. "I wish you'd come on my day off." Really? He came by appt, and it likely WAS the lab's day off: that's why it was a "ghost town". (Institutes don't give oversized office/lab space to tiny projects for 15 years!) She wouldn't want this discussion to take place around her colleagues.

I think she triggered the attack (which allies her with the Zhat Vash--if they were indeed behind the attack, which may be questioned). She'd identified Dahj, and (as well see) wanted the other twin neutralized as well.

"Neutralized" doesn't exclude "studied". Last ep, I mentioned how Agent Sloan was meant to be beamed out in the split-second of a "lethal" Romulan disruptor blast in TNG, decades ago. That would be easier and more reliable now, esp if you only need to save one neuron.

[05:00] "To mount a multi-world evacuation of tens of millions of Romulans without StarFleet support?"
This bugged me. I hate it when world builders have no sense of scale. It's pretty clear from every other source that it would be tens of BILLIONS. Even if that super-anglized Frenchman, Jean-Luc, or his actor, Patrick Stewart, was doggedly sticking to an increasingly outdated British terminology, it would have been "tens of milliards".

[05:21] "My resignation WAS the last desperate solution. I never thought they'd accept it."
Nothing shows the enormity of Picard's hubris more than this. He really thought Starfleet would change the fate of entire empire, because they couldn't --wouldn't dare!-- to go on without him. No wonder everyone is always needling him about it. Oh how it must sting when those who didn't know this story, like Dahj, refer to him as The Great Man.

[13:08] "Usually I find that if I ask people for help, they're happy to give it."

There's a lot to be said for asking nicely, but like Hugh, I find this implausible, especially with Romulans. Is this some special ability? Does she turn spy during 'blackouts'? Did her handlers get the dossier and leave her with the impression that she'd gotten it trivially?

[15:42] "Rios" = "Rivers". Picard, you don't want to mess with River Tam and River Song.

[16:38] More indoor flying "bots". This time, some seem to fly in/out/inside the walls of the Borg Artifact.

[19:31] "Aguardiente": a generic Iberian term for strong alcohol (30-60% ABV or 60-120 proof), translates to "burning water"

[22:33] onscreen: "CRYPTO ALGORITHM IDENTIFICATION: GORN EGG"

On the Freecloud Welcome page: is that a Gorn table dealer/croupier -- maybe a female?

[26:21] "Traditional Romulan houses always have a false front door that's never used. You have to go around the back"

It seemed strange to invite approach from the rear, but Romulan houses probably have arrays of scanners on the sides, with "defensive" weapons in the back -- too dangerous to point toward public ways. Best to keep any carnage on your own property.

Federation Express and United Planets Services lose so many delivery drones bearing unexpected packages to these.

[27:18] That's one awfully fortuitous plum fumble!

[27:40] Jurati: oops, did I just do that?

Yeah, because there was a stray disruptor rifle OUTSIDE the room where the enemy agents got killed. And ONE agent waiting to back up the whole team?

I've see record-breaking domino falls that were less eleborately set up.

[30:00] Questioning the agent seemed pointless. The way they did it was worse.

First things first: let's stack the bodies/guns. Neatness counts.
A spray bottle? Wonder why we never used those to wake people up in the ER?
An unwieldy ornamental rope crudely tied to heirloom furnture should secure a Zhat Vash goon that size!
Let's not hold our own guns pointed at him!
Offering to release him if he talked--as if his bosses wouldn't kill him?

Even if Picard forgot the "acid tooth", Lorix/Zhaban should expect Zhat Vash to have some tricks, at least body monitors linked to Ops. And more were coming.

[33:15] Who would have the MOST interest in the specific answers Soji urgently demanded of Ramdha?
They'd be of interest to many, but none more than the Borg themselves.

[35:00] Maybe it's the form of projection, or maybe it's just me, but this Mom just didn't look like the one in the premiere to me, even after reviewing each several times. But IMDB says they're the same actress.

[36:55] "I may be falling in love with you"
Would *anyone* buy that? Sadly, yes. They do every day. but...gag!

[40:52] "You didn't even ask me to run any kind of security check -- not even the most basic!"
The writers are all but saying that Raffi's credibility as a supersleuth would be ruined if she hadn't found X [to be revealed later]

Could that be writer misdirection? Of course. But we already have every reason to suspect Jurati, we just don't know her motives. I'm not even sure SHE isn't a synth.

Picard, to Raffi: "Why DO you want to go to Freecloud?'
Raffi:  "I'm under no obligation to tell that to any of you"
(Picard asked. Rios doesn't care. So "any" must specifically mean Jurati)


I'll probably think of more later, but for now I'm off to Valentine heartily.

#2 RJDiogenes

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 08:58 PM

View PostOrpheus, on 14 February 2020 - 05:14 PM, said:

I think she triggered the attack (which allies her with the Zhat Vash--if they were indeed behind the attack, which may be questioned). She'd identified Dahj, and (as well see) wanted the other twin neutralized as well.  
There were plenty of reasons to be suspicious of Agnes even before she met with Commodore Oh My.

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This bugged me. I hate it when world builders have no sense of scale. It's pretty clear from every other source that it would be tens of BILLIONS.  
It's within the realm of possibility that a multi-world empire would have planetary populations in the millions-- lower population density equals higher standard of living-- but it is probably just stupidity.  It reminds me of one of the (near-infinite) stupidities of JJ Trek:  Spock saying that Vulcans were now an endangered species.

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Nothing shows the enormity of Picard's hubris more than this.  
Well, he's not the first person to threaten to resign as a last-ditch measure. I've, er, done it myself. With much the same result.

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Oh how it must sting when those who didn't know this story, like Dahj, refer to him as The Great Man.  
Which actually makes me wonder why he would be referred to as The Great Man, later developments considered.

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"Traditional Romulan houses always have a false front door that's never used. You have to go around the back"
Oddly enough, this describes my parents' house (before they moved to the retirement place).
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#3 Orpheus

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 10:39 PM

Over dinner, I heard about Species 8472. I think we have to put them high on the candidate list.

View PostRJDiogenes, on 14 February 2020 - 08:58 PM, said:

There were plenty of reasons to be suspicious of Agnes even before she met with Commodore Oh My.
To be clear when I said Jurati triggered the attack, i meant the attack in Dahj's apartment not Maison Picard... and I was always suspicious of Jurati. I actually said it out loud on first watching . My friend, who thought she was cute, said "You're a tough audience"

View PostRJDiogenes, on 14 February 2020 - 08:58 PM, said:

It's within the realm of possibility that a multi-world empire would have planetary populations in the millions-- lower population density equals higher standard of living-- but it is probably just stupidity.  It reminds me of one of the (near-infinite) stupidities of JJ Trek:  Spock saying that Vulcans were now an endangered species.
I had no prior opinion of the overall Romulan population. I looked it up in Memory Alpha, which said 18 Billion for Romulus alone.
However, in the Overthinkers thread on the premiere, I quoted Picard's interviewer, re: the population affected by the supernova, because I just knew this would be an issue.

Memory Alpha said:

Overthinkers thread S01E01 said:

[13:43] "10,000 warp-capable ferries. 900,000,000 Romulan citizens" -- seem like numbers worth remembering

this episode s0103 said:

[05:00] "To mount a multi-world evacuation of tens of millions of Romulans without StarFleet support?"

It is of interest to me now, because I'm trying to assess the effects of the disaster and Picard's rescue efforts before the Utopia Planitia attack, e.g. Picard later said that on Vashti alone, the Qowat Milat helped him and Raffi relocate "more than a quarter of a million refugees". I would like to know what that represents in the context of the overall disaster -- did Vashti alone amount to a percent or two ("a quarter million" out of "tens of millions", whatever a "million" is to him), 0.1%-ish of 900,000,000, or 0.01% of tens of Billions (18B Romulus plus more on several nearby systems). We'll only ever have a ballpark, since Picard's words indicate he  and the Qowat Milat assisted in other relocations, and I'm sure there were relocations where they didn't work together, or weren't involved at all.

AT the rate the scale of the disaster is decreasing, by the end of the season it'll be "My Name is Zhaban of Romulus, You killed my parents. Prepare to die!"

View PostRJDiogenes, on 14 February 2020 - 08:58 PM, said:

Which actually makes me wonder why he would be referred to as The Great Man, later developments considered.
The Emergency Navigation Hologram spelled out some compelling reasons. I'm told the Emergency Copulation Hologram speaks highly of him as well.

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Edited by Orpheus, 16 February 2020 - 07:15 PM.
: Tried unsuccessfully to fix bug in attachment in Quote box


#4 FarscapeOne

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 02:00 AM

Regarding millions not billions...

The Romulans were likely already staeting evacuations, so I look at the Federation as promising to save a part of the planet... like they were responsible for a smaller continent that had less than a billion people.  The Romulan Empire certainly would have gotten the process started already and were taking care of the others.

#5 Youkai

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 01:02 PM

I don't know if people consider the ST: Picard - The Last Best Hope prequel novel to be canon, but in it, it states that because the Romulans didn't fully trust the Federation in their sincerity at that point, they weren't allowing them into the home system and were only willing to allow them limited access to the systems beyond, and those were the systems that had nine hundred million to save. If the rescue effort went well, then they might be allowed to help further. Take that for what you will.

Edited by Youkai, 15 February 2020 - 01:03 PM.


#6 Christopher

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 01:49 PM

View PostYoukai, on 15 February 2020 - 01:02 PM, said:

I don't know if people consider the ST: Picard - The Last Best Hope prequel novel to be canon


Canon is not something decided on by the audience. It means the overall body of works from the original creators or owners of a property, as distinct from derivative works by other creators. As a rule, the only times that tie-in works can successfully be consistent with a canon is when they're actually written or plotted by the creators of the original series, like the Del Rey Babylon 5 novels or the post-series Buffy comics from Joss Whedon. After all, nobody else can really maintain a series's continuity or authenticity as tightly as the actual showrunner. And even then, it usually only works if the series has already ended and there's no risk of creators changing their minds about the continuity.

The Discovery and Picard tie-in novels and comics are not canonical, and they are not immune against future contradiction (and indeed, neither are canonical works, as we've seen many times in Trek and elsewhere). But they are written in close coordination with writing staff member Kirsten Beyer (because she came from the novels and has an established relationship with the Pocket editors and a lot of us novelists), and they reflect the shows' continuity and backstory assumptions as they stand at the time the tie-ins are written. So they can be taken as informative about the underlying thinking behind the show's premise, while not actually binding.
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#7 Youkai

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 02:29 PM

Edit: Website weirdness; double post.

Edited by Youkai, 15 February 2020 - 02:54 PM.


#8 Orpheus

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 12:21 AM

My realization that Dahj was probably hired by Jurvati's Daystrom lab and that Jurati therefore hid many key facts and misrepresented others made me realize how many foundational "facts" from the premiere are now open to question, tainting most of our speculations since.

(Incidentally, I don't know if it means anything, but Dahj's boyfriend may have worked at Daystrom ["I might even be able to sit with you in the cafeteria"]. He guessed she was hired for Robotics, but seemed at a loss for words when she said she was a Fellow in Artificial Intelligence and Quantum Consciousness. I also suspect boyfriend's death might not be utterly random.)

PREMISES TO QUESTION

"before the ban...a flesh and blood android was in our sights, but a sentient one? Not for a thousand years

This is clear hyperbole. 1000 years ago was Medieval Europe. The Incas didn't yet exist--nor the printing press. Beijing wasn't yet capital of the Chinese Empire. From Kitty Hawk to the Moon landing was less than 70 years. We can't imagine what even a century would bring.

Why would a flesh android be so beyond known tech? Can flesh contain sentience? Humans are reportedly sentient (I sometimes have my doubts) Can Androids contain sentience? Can humans create sentience? Soong did both 60+ years before. Can sentience be transferred to a machine? It might depend on the original substrate of the sentience, but it's been over 130 years since ST:TOS "What are Little Girls Made of", "Spock's Brain" and many other diverse successes.

The only honest response Earth's leading expert on synths could possibly give is "It depends on what you mean." Instead she says "Impossible", which suggests the real answer is "We secretly already have them", but she had to stonewall.

Are Dahj/Soji actually sentient androids?

It's plausible, but what evidence do we actually have? They don't seem to know their own true nature. We haven't seen any physical evidence. They could be hypno-programmed humans, perhaps with augmentation (Dahj's spectacular leap on the Starfleet roof). It seems likely that synths are involved somehow, but I can't say with 100% certainty that Dahj/Soji aren't some other type of macguffin.

Too bad the Tal Shiar supersleuth, Laris, didn't look for Dahj's DNA.

Is Data utterly gone? Can he be replicated from a single neuron?

Realistically, the death of any key cast member should be considered provisional. Data 'died' aboard the Scimitar in Romulan space (where any remaining bits would be). He paused so long in firing his phaser that the thalaron device detonated in literally the last possible second. Was he waiting for the threshold of some conjectured technobabble effect of the [hitherto unmentioned] thalaron detonation? Thalaron radiation itself only affects organic matter. Sure, the Scimitar exploded, but where in the ship did the explosion originate? Might a single neuron survive?

Everything Agnes said about Fractal Neuronic Cloning must be questioned. Tempting Picard with the hope of regenerating his friend would be a pretty obvious recruitment ploy. Agnes contradicts herself, saying that, given a sentient neural net, creating the flesh would be easy, but she just said--twice--that it was impossible, without regard to sentience. She also said that before they were shut down [15 years ago] "we came so close" after saying it wouldn't be possible for a thousand years.

If the flesh was relatively easy, saying that any sentient android must derive from Data is bogus (Daystrom himself made a sentient AI in TOS "The Ultimate Computer". Trek has had many others),  but the pretense creates a sentimental link to Dahj/Soji..Data's first daughter, Lal, was close to a success. I doubt Maddox would have had any reservations about upgrading B-$'s hardware and extending that work--nor would (then-Vice) Admiral Haftel (who tried to take Lal) or many others.

One hallmark of "holographic" storage (where each piece contains info about the entire whole) is "the smaller the piece you have, the fuzzier (less detailed) the description. Any object is the minimal PERFECT representation of itself--anything less is just an approximation. That said, I DO believe that a single neuron will turn out to be enough to reconstruct the whole in ST:Picard -- for literary reasons.

Is the B-4 just "filed away"?

B-4s have passed for Data (and vice versa!) in prior Trek plotlines The writers even have Picard comment on the resemblance, though he's seen B-4s before, more than once -- and Lore. Do I smell a plot twist here?

Is the necklace a symbol for Fractal Neuronic Cloning?

Considering that the next scene morphs the necklace into an exact match to a pair of ring nebulas seen from the Borg Artifact, I'd say it seems as likely to represent something about the [area near] Borg Artifact -- though no one on the Borg Artifact seems to recognize it as such.

Ring nebulae can't neatly interlink, but rings can appear interlinked from certain viewpoints. It looks like these were created together by opposite arms of a nearby 'dumbell' nebula (e.g. Eta Carinae, in the direction of Canopus, in the Beta quadrant)

Agnes seemed genuinely shaken when she saw it. She may have recognized it as an [unexpected] clue, perhaps on she hadn't known before.

Are FNC androids only made in pairs?

I can't say "no", but I see no reason to say "yes". The Ashas are twins, and Agnes' tale would be a good way to tell Picard about Soji (so he can 'save' her) without appearing to know anything more. Dahj says nothing about a twin, nor (apparently) do her records reflect one. Soji tells Narek she's a twin and asks "mom" about Dahj. The Romulans spoke of "the other one", but this may just mean "the other known deployed one". They clearly believe that there are more of their kind, identical or not.


Can Federation Biometric scans detect then proposed sentient androids? Who can't they detect?

Daystrom's biometric scanner recognized Jurati (the only evidene that she is human), but Federation scanners have been fooled by Changlings  and others, even at high level diplomatic functions. There's a Romulan playing a human in StarFleet HQ right now. Species 8472 seemed confident they could pass Starfleet security [the EMH only found differences via a postmortem microcellular scan,and even then couldn't identify the underlying species). The Romulans don't seem to have detected Soji, whatever she is, and they seem very security conscious.

There are many possibilities I wouldn't rule out, but it's interesting to consider: if Dahj is an android and would have been detected by Daystrom's biometric scanners, that would have been a good non-Jurati reason for Zhat Vash to "take" her before she reported for duty, and was scanned, "outed" and investigated by Daystrom, UFP, Starfleet, etc.

#9 Christopher

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:58 AM

View PostOrpheus, on 18 February 2020 - 12:21 AM, said:

PREMISES TO QUESTION

"before the ban...a flesh and blood android was in our sights, but a sentient one? Not for a thousand years

This is clear hyperbole. 1000 years ago was Medieval Europe. The Incas didn't yet exist--nor the printing press. Beijing wasn't yet capital of the Chinese Empire. From Kitty Hawk to the Moon landing was less than 70 years. We can't imagine what even a century would bring.


Also, holographic sentience seems easier to achieve than positronic (Moriarty, the EMH, etc.), and it should be easy enough to take the hardware that runs a sentient hologram's AI and stick it into the head of an android. As far as an organic body, the EMH once had his consciousness uploaded into Seven of Nine's Borg implants (allowing Jeri Ryan to do a fantastic Robert Picardo impression).


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Can sentience be transferred to a machine? It might depend on the original substrate of the sentience, but it's been over 130 years since ST:TOS "What are Little Girls Made of", "Spock's Brain" and many other diverse successes.

"Little Girls" seemed more like copying intelligence than transferring it; recall that Kirk and his double existed at the same time. The episode also seemed to take the view that the copies were not truly sentient, just programmed emulations ("Dr. Korby was never here"). As for "Spock's Brain," that's not applicable, because it wasn't a consciousness transfer, just a straight-up brain transplant. Something like "Return to Tomorrow" might apply, with Sargon's people planning to transfer their disembodied consciousnesses into android bodies. But that seemed more psionic/paranormal than technological, ghosts in the machine.

A better precedent would be Ira Graves uploading his mind into Data in "The Schizoid Man."




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Is Data utterly gone? Can he be replicated from a single neuron?

Realistically, the death of any key cast member should be considered provisional. Data 'died' aboard the Scimitar in Romulan space (where any remaining bits would be). He paused so long in firing his phaser that the thalaron device detonated in literally the last possible second. Was he waiting for the threshold of some conjectured technobabble effect of the [hitherto unmentioned] thalaron detonation? Thalaron radiation itself only affects organic matter. Sure, the Scimitar exploded, but where in the ship did the explosion originate? Might a single neuron survive?

Data and Maddox were correspondents and "friends of a sort" for many years, with Data encouraging Maddox's research as long as it didn't require his own disassembly. It seems plausible that Data may have donated a few of his neurons to Maddox for study somewhere along the line.



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One hallmark of "holographic" storage (where each piece contains info about the entire whole) is "the smaller the piece you have, the fuzzier (less detailed) the description. Any object is the minimal PERFECT representation of itself--anything less is just an approximation. That said, I DO believe that a single neuron will turn out to be enough to reconstruct the whole in ST:Picard -- for literary reasons.

I hope not. There have been enough stories already in various tie-ins about resurrecting Data, and I like Picard's alternative approach that's more concerned with preserving his legacy, his offspring. That's about looking forward rather than clinging to the past, and it's a fresher, more mature approach than just "Let's undo the bad thing and pretend it never happened."

Besides, their attempts to de-age Brent Spiner in the dream sequences were not entirely successful. Bringing him back on a permanent basis doesn't seem like a realistic thing to expect. Some handwave for why Data looks old now would be odd, and if you just recast the role with a different actor, why bother bringing him back at all? So focusing on his offspring instead of him makes more sense from a pragmatic standpoint as well as being less corny and reset-buttony from a creative standpoint.



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Dahj says nothing about a twin, nor (apparently) do her records reflect one.

But Laris found messages from her twin sister in her computer. They were in contact.
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#10 Orpheus

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 03:27 PM

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There have been enough stories already in various tie-ins about resurrecting Data
I didn't mean to suggest that they will reconstruct Data. I agree that that would be problematic. I included the potential survival of his parts solely for completeness

I suspect that the potential to reconstitute neural nets (or at least FNC neural nets) might be an issue. We might, for example, see a desperate effort to destroy or preserve "the last neuron sample" of the Ashas or (more likely) the "nest".

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But Laris found messages from her twin sister in her computer. They were in contact.

I like Zhaban and Laris, and believe they mean Picard well - but they are Tal Shiar (at least) and as such, not above manipulating others to "do the right thing" according to their agenda rather than simply explaining and asking. Indeed, they very much prefer to manipulate. Romulans never show all their cards (except in pixmit).

In the OA notes, I expressed scepticism of Laris' "forensic molecular reconstruction". It's "too powerful for Trek" (a lesson learned from the transporter, and I fear, unlearned with the interstellar range transporters of the new timelines) and ...well, I have many scientific objections that are irrelevant here. My contention was that we never actually saw ANY evidence (such as a message), we just heard Laris masterfully craft a tale, and possibly play back a recording taken by the orchid.

Since then, however, I have noticed a brief scene where Picard could read "Participant falsely identified as User Log#...", which lends some credence to at least that part of Laris' account. For me that is a significant change in outlook.

Of course, those may have less "conversations" than hypnotic(??) instructions. Imagine Dahj answers the call. "Hello? Wait who are you? You look just like m..." (loses consciousness and falls into 'programming mode'). This happened when Soji called her "mom". Dahj had a less dramatic 'redirect' moment after she questioned her "mom": "How did you know about Picard? I didn't tell you. I haven't talked to you"

Thank you for reminding me of that plausible contact. It's something I'll need to think over. If they did talk, what did they talk about? Neither seems to be consciously aware of their mission, and sisterly chitchat (over undoubtedly monitored Romulan comms) to bolster Soji's cover doesn't seem reason enough to bother. Indeed, These calls could be exactly what led The Zhat Vash to Dahj on Earth. [Irregularities in?] Soji's calls to 'mom' should have led them to 'mom' -- and when that failed, would have put the Zhat Vash on high alert. That may be why they suspect a "nest". They know there's an untrackable "controller" somewhere.

#11 Christopher

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 04:09 PM

Defaulting to the assumption that every available piece of data is falsified in some way just seems paranoid to me. We should always remain open to modifying our hypotheses if new evidence comes along to refute the current evidence, but rejecting the current evidence before there's any data to refute it is arbitrary.

And I see no reason to think the orchids were anything other than a bit of scenery, a moment of decorative alienness, like the chiming plants on Talos IV in "The Cage." As for the reconstruction technique, I've seen the same idea depicted in other SF, the idea that with advanced enough tech you can recreate exactly what happened in the recent past. (I've even seen one plausible way of doing it, by taking advantage of the soup of microwave signals we all move through and using data from the cell towers surrounding a building to reconstruct the movement of the bodies inside an apartment through the way they eclipsed the signals reaching the towers. I think it was in an episode of Continuum, and I think I read something similar in a prose story once too.) There have been far greater implausibilities in Trek, so just because it seems implausible in real-life terms doesn't make it fraudulent in-universe.
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#12 RJDiogenes

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 07:03 PM

View PostOrpheus, on 18 February 2020 - 12:21 AM, said:

This is clear hyperbole. 1000 years ago was Medieval Europe. The Incas didn't yet exist--nor the printing press. Beijing wasn't yet capital of the Chinese Empire.  
I wasn't born yet.  I think it was deliberate hyperbole on the part of Agnes, because she knows that they do exist. It's also foreshadowing-- if the writers tell us it's not there, we can be sure it is there.

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Why would a flesh android be so beyond known tech?  
My question is, why is this even a desirable goal?  A flesh android is just custom-grown human.

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Humans are reportedly sentient (I sometimes have my doubts)  
So do I, and that's not a joke.  I think sentience and sapience can have degrees, just like intelligence and emotion.

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The only honest response Earth's leading expert on synths could possibly give is "It depends on what you mean." Instead she says "Impossible", which suggests the real answer is "We secretly already have them", but she had to stonewall.  
Or somebody already has them and she wants to find them.

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Might a single neuron survive?  
It might not have to.  Data downloaded his marbles into Beta. The fact that Beta couldn't handle it is possibly irrelevant.  You can download apps onto your phone that need a newer OS to run.  And Data doesn't have to be reconstructed just as he was on TNG.  The omnipresent holographic emitters on Rios' ship may have more purpose than giving the guy an interesting quirk-- recreating Data as a hologram could mean using CGI or deepfake technology to bring him back without needing to de-age Brent Spiner.

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Considering that the next scene morphs the necklace into an exact match to a pair of ring nebulas seen from the Borg Artifact, I'd say it seems as likely to represent something about the [area near] Borg Artifact  
It's a map to the nest and it contains Data's brain.

Quote

Are FNC androids only made in pairs?  
I can't think of any reason why they would need to be.  That seemed weird to me, so it's probably either a plot point or more misdirection.
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#13 Orpheus

Orpheus

    I'm not the boss of you!

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:23 PM

View PostChristopher, on 18 February 2020 - 04:09 PM, said:

Defaulting to the assumption that every available piece of data is falsified in some way just seems paranoid to me.

I'm not assuming it's all false. I'm trying to think of everything that might be misleading, with the implicit assumption that they won't all (or even mostly) be "false".  There's no question that some subterfuge is at hand. I'm just generating a candidate pool for further investigation. I'm skeptical of each in parallel. I can see how that may look like I'm skeptical of it all, en banc.

I'm fully willing to accept that the Orchids might mean nothing. I still like the theory that they play a role, but I accept that it seems less likely with each episode where they don't appear, even by reference.



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