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Seatbelts

Public Safety Driving Seatbelts

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Poll: Do you wear a seatbelt when driving? (59 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you wear a seatbelt when driving?

  1. Yes (55 votes [96.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 96.49%

  2. No (1 votes [1.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.75%

  3. Sometimes (1 votes [1.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.75%

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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 02:20 PM

Shouldn't it be up to the driver whether or not they wish to wear a seatbelt? Granted, in most crashes it might save your life...but there are other times when wearing a seatbelt will kill you. Namely if, as with my father, the engine winds up in the driver's seat. What do you guys think?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#2 Rov Judicata

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 02:25 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Oct 4 2003, 12:20 PM, said:

Shouldn't it be up to the driver whether or not they wish to wear a seatbelt?
No.

The simple fact is that the state is obligated to provide you with emergency care should you injure yourself (unless you specifically refuse treatment, which you probably won't). The state has a compelling interest in keeping those bills down, and the seatbelt is beneficial in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Further, driving isn't a right, it's a privilege granted to the people by the states. Therefore, the state government has a right to regulate it much more than they would if driving was, in fact, a right.

EDIT: To clarify-- just in case-- yes I wear my seatbelt, no it's not up to you whether you wear one.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 04 October 2003 - 02:27 PM.

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Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
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#3 Josh

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 02:26 PM

Yes, I do. For one, it's the law. And second, it's more likely that one will save your life then hinder it.
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#4 Nikcara

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 02:39 PM

I've seen enough crashes with people wearing seatbelts and people not.

In everyone I've seen, the seatbelt is a big help.  Flying out a car window at 40 mph doesn't do pretty things to your body.  

That said, I'm a little iffy about this law.  Some people have reason not to wear seatbelts: they don't fit properly (which can sometimes do more harm then good, for example if the shoulder strap always finds itself across a person's throat) or similar things
But the state does try hard to keep people from injuring or killing themselves as much as possible.  That's why we have to have driver's licenses in the first place, and why we can't drive drunk and why we have speed limits, so Rov's argument that it's a vested interest to keep expenses down doesn't work that well for me.  Besides, there are ambulance companies that are private, and most of the bill (as I understand it) either goes to you or to your insurance agency and not the state (there are ambulance companies that make the person pay even if they are state-run and ones that don't.  I and know hospitals make you pay unless youre unable, and then it's the hosptial that foots the bill)

So in the end I guess I'm for keeping the law.
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#5 HubcapDave

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 02:40 PM

I remember when I first got my license. It was the same year Ca passed its seat belt law, and I decided I should start wearing it. Now I feel naked if I don't wear it!

I also used to give a kid who lived in my apartment building a ride to school. I always made people driving with me put on their belts, and this guy used to bitch and moan endlessly about wearing a seat belt, giving me every "reason" why you were better off not wearing it.

The bottom line is, anecotes aside, you are much safer wearing a seatbelt than not.

#6 Nikcara

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 02:45 PM

^If he were short enough that the seatbelt shoulder strap went across his neck, then yes, he had a good reason not to wear the shoulderstrap.  There's still the lapbelt though, and while just wearing one of those has several problems related to it, it's still far better then nothing at all
We have fourty million reasons for failure, but not a single excuse  -- Rudyard Kipling

Develop compassion for your enemies, that is genuine compassion.  Limited compassion cannot produce this altruism.  -- H. H. the Dalai Lama

#7 HubcapDave

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 02:50 PM

No, nothing like that. The guy was just a stoner freak who liked to bitch.

#8 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 03:00 PM

In my case, the shoulder strap goes right across my neck...No matter how I position it, it always finds it way back there. That's why I went and got a doctors note excusing me from wearing it. I figure the airbag will help if I have an accident, and with the doctors note I won't get tickets for not wearing a seatbelt...
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#9 Kimmer

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 03:01 PM

Yes, I wear one - have since I started driving (which is before it was mandatory).

Yes, I make all my passengers wear one.

Reasons why: see Rov's answer - I'm too lazy to retype all that. ;)

From personal experience: I stand 4' 11" high. The seat belt does cut across me a tad too close to my throat. BUT, I'm alive because I had it on. I was only doing 15mph. The car that hit me was doing in excess of 51mph. He only caught the last 2 ft of my car, but he spun us around approx. 200 degrees. Mom and both found our eyeglasses in the back of the car. Our groceries had bounced all over and exploded. The drivers seat was jarred almost 3 inches from the frame. My mom had a broken breast bone, and hurt her head - why? Because she had her belt on incorrectly and wasn't secure. I had bruises - lots and lots of bruises. I have aches and pains still - and that was 3 years ago (9/21/00).

BUT, I'm alive. I won't ride in a car if there isn't a working seat belt.


kimmer

#10 G1223

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 03:06 PM

I have always feltthat I made the choice to wear a seatbelt. No one put a gun to my head or tried to hand me a ticket .

I feel the state has about as much right to do this as they do in making sure that I do not start smoking cigaretts or eat fatty food. Basically the state jumped on this as a means of revnue gathering and allowing for some vehicle searches that otherwise would not be allowed to happen.

Basically the state as Nanny needs to depart just as quickly as it can be arranged.
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#11 HubcapDave

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 03:13 PM

G1223, on Oct 4 2003, 01:06 PM, said:

I have always feltthat I made the choice to wear a seatbelt. No one put a gun to my head or tried to hand me a ticket .

I feel the state has about as much right to do this as they do in making sure that I do not start smoking cigaretts or eat fatty food. Basically the state jumped on this as a means of revnue gathering and allowing for some vehicle searches that otherwise would not be allowed to happen.

Basically the state as Nanny needs to depart just as quickly as it can be arranged.
As stated earlier, that would be fine if you had the right to drive. Fact is, you don't. It is a privlege granted to you by the state.

#12 G1223

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 03:31 PM

I agree about it not being a right.

But it does not change the fact that this is a lie made law. If it was saving lives and reducing accident why are we paying more for insurance? Becasue the Insurance companies paid for(Meaning bribed) legistlators to do this. So if a seat belt was not worn the company could get out of some parts of the damages from accident or drop coverage.

It is one of the reasons I am a proud member of the Vote the bastards out party. we keep an eye out for any politician who has the title incumbant and bascally vote against him.

The state providing trauma care comes from other laws. Laws that have a basis from before there were laws about seatbelts.

BTW when are they placing the crash cages and 6 point belts on school bises. I mean if we are goingto be really nannyishly stupid? Why not it's only the people's money it's not like they can make reasonable choices concerning their safety. The state should take care of making sure folks cannot get hurt at home as well as work. (Remember they wanted to prevent children drowning in buckets so they wanted to put holes in them to prevent the deaths.  Or the attempt to make nitrate free fertilizer)

Yes more of the State as Nanny. They will tell you a calender is a really a cup and tell you to place the coffee in it.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

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#13 HubcapDave

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 03:41 PM

Seat belts do save lives, but reducing accidents? how the hell does a seatbelt do that?

Methinks there is a slight flaw in that argument.

#14 Rov Judicata

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 03:47 PM

HubcapDave, on Oct 4 2003, 01:41 PM, said:

Seat belts do save lives, but reducing accidents? how the hell does a seatbelt do that?
I'd actually say that they probably do prevent a huge accidents.

I was rear-ended at roughly 30 MPH once, while sitting at a red light. I had my seatbelt on, and stomped on the brakes. If I had been knocked out of position by the force and my foot slipped from the brake, I most likely would have been hit or hit by cross-traffic. How you react to an accident prevents accidents, and seatbelts help you react better. :).

EDIT: Also, as I understand it, those huge "78 car pileups" you hear about are eventually stopped by somebody who manages NOT to hit the guy in front of him when he's hit. Being able to react quickly in that case is, once again, aided by a seatbelt.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 04 October 2003 - 03:50 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#15 G1223

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 03:50 PM

It was used as one of the numbers of excuses that a number of midwestern states used. That the reduction in injures meant that states would be paying less in premiums for personal injuries.

Basically the fact is that the states were tricked into this and now we will have a fight and a half to change it back to the way it was. Remember a number of states used to have helmet laws for motorcycles but dropped them. Thiis is goingto need to be done the same way.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#16 HubcapDave

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 04:05 PM

Well, as far as insurance rates go, judging solely on my own experience, my rates have stayed more or lees the same for most of the last 8 years or so. I pay more now, but that's because I have more coverage than I used to.

#17 Aurelius

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 04:06 PM

I definitely feel that all drivers should be made wear seatbelts. It's common sense. If you do have an accident, surely you'd want all possible precautions in place to try and minimise any possible injury you might sustain.

I feel that if a person doesn't wear a seatbelt, they're being irresponsible. However, if a driver wants to kill himself by not wearing one, then that's his prerogative. On the other hand, the driver has a moral duty to ensure that his passengers wear them. While they're in the car, he's responsible for their safety. Not forcing them to belt up is morally negligent and should be illegal (If it isn't already)

Myself, I'm only learning to drive now and the first thing I do is put on the belt....not because I was told to (My instructor doesn't wear his  :glare: ), but because I wouldn't feel safe without it.

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#18 Guest-2112st-Guest

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 04:21 PM

Yep. I ALWAYS wear a seatbelt-driving or otherwise. It's second nature to me. I don't even think about it.

:)

#19 Guest-2112st-Guest

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 04:40 PM

Aurelius, on Oct 4 2003, 09:06 PM, said:

Myself, I'm only learning to drive now and the first thing I do is put on the belt....not because I was told to (My instructor doesn't wear his  :glare: ), but because I wouldn't feel safe without it.
Well, then your instructor, to put it bluntly, is a f***ing MORON and has NO BUSINESS teaching ANYONE how to drive.  :crazy:  :angry:

I drive for a living; I'm a school bus driver. One of the things that pisses me off to NO end (I live in New Jersey-for international folks, that's the northeast corner of U.S.) is that the road test for cars is a frigging JOKE. They have you drive around a parking lot that has markings that are supposed to stand for streets. You then park between two cones, and if you did well (  :sarcasm: ) you pass. WTF?!?!?  :angry:  :crazy:

The road test they give for driving buses is the road test they SHOULD give to people driving CARS. They actually put you out in TRAFFIC. Wow-driving out in traffic!! What a concept!!  :wacko:   :sarcasm:

Oh, and one final thing, which I've been DYING to vent about-headlights on in the daytime. The ONLY time I can see this making sense is if there's bad weather. Otherwise, the idea is RIDICULOUS.

My school bus has headlights that automatically come on when I shift into drive-and I can't shut them off.  :glare:

Why do I think such an idea is stupid when you're driving on a bright clear day??

If you are such a LAZY, INATTENTIVE driver that you have to see HEADLIGHTS on from another car during a BRIGHT SUNNY DAY to NOTICE IT, then you have ***NO*** business behind the wheel.  :angry:

And a school bus?? Ummm-it's BRIGHT YELLOW. Hello???????? Nooooooo-that ain't enough. I guess many drivers are so g*dd*mn STUPID that a BIG YELLOW school bus isn't NOTICABLE enough.  :angry:

I remember one commerical bus company I tried to get work with saying all drivers were REQUIRED to drive with headlights on AT ALL TIMES. Even if it was sunny out.  :sarcasm:

Gah... :crazy:

As my late dad told me, "You can be the most careful driver in the world-but you don't know about the other guy."

How right he was.  :glare:

Saul

(edited for content)

Edited by Vapor Trails, 04 October 2003 - 04:52 PM.


#20 Josh

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 04:52 PM

^

If it makes you feel any better, the road test in Washington actually requires you to know how to parallel park. ;) Oh, and driving on the highway and in the city is a requirement as well.

The one in New Jersey sounds... well... questionable at best.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.



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