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Elite Media Gets Desparate: NY Times Arnold Op-Ed

Media NYTimes Op-Ed

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#1 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 09:19 AM

Found via google, purely by accident:

http://www.nytimes.c...&partner=GOOGLE

It's a pretty typical piece; contempt for the American public (especially Arnold voters), distortions, and criticzing Arnold because of his career.

To be honest, this is so typical, I don't even know why I'm bothering. In the end, I decided it was such a perfect demonstration of where the NY Times is editorially right now that I couldn't resist.


Fire in the hole. :cool:

Quote

He may once have admired Hitler for whatever reasons, but I'm sure if you asked Arnold Schwarzenegger whom he admires most, the honest answer would be, "Ah-nold!"

The Hitler thing is, as we'll deal with later, hopelessly out of context and we're not even sure if it's true *in context*. On top of that, the writer is saying, "Well, if I bothered to ask him this question, then the answer would be...". Surely this innovative technique to save time will spread like fire.

"Now, I didn't actually ask George Bush about North Korea's policy, but if I *had* he would have said..."

Quote

If there's a voter anywhere in the state who thinks this character will spend even a hot minute wrestling with the realities of budgets and such, that person should seek immediate counseling.

Argument by assertion. Anybody who supports Arnold must be stupid! If only we lived in some sort of world run by oped writers....

Quote

There's a reason Mr. Schwarzenegger announced his candidacy on "The Tonight Show With Jay Leno." He doesn't want to govern. He just wants to be adored.
Really? Are you going to criticize Gephardt for announcing on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart? And how are you any more adored on the tonight show than surrounded by supporters on an aircraft carrier?

Quote

An article in The Times on Friday quoted the following telling passage attributed to Mr. Schwarzenegger in a book proposal:
"The feeling like Kennedy had, you know, to speak to maybe 50,000 people at one time and having them cheer, or like Hitler in the Nuremberg stadium. And have all those people scream at you and just being in total agreement with whatever you say."

Quick, when was the book proposal written? Oh, that would be an inconvenient fact. Doesn't Arnold specifically say that he DOESN'T admire Hitler for what he did with it, contrary to the ABC quote?  Has Arnold gone on record saying he hates everything Hitler stands for? Damn these facts!

Quote

"The feeling like Kennedy had, you know, to speak to maybe 50,000 people at one time and having them cheer, or like Hitler in the Nuremberg stadium. And have all those people scream at you and just being in total agreement with whatever you say."
Perhaps I'm simply an inferior human being, but I think very few people wouldn't like this. He's not supporting Hitler one iota in this quote.

Quote

The adoration is the thing. In the mad, mad world of Hollywood stardom the undiluted narcissist doesn't have to worry about what to say. The image is everything. The words come in a script. It's a splendid system. The mind undisturbed by original thoughts can remain focused on the most important matter, which is always the self.

I'm going to avoid the obvious irony of this oped writer criticizing somebody for remaining undisturbed by original thought and move on.

Quote

When a farmer asked him why California needed a state Environmental Protection Agency when there is also a federal E.P.A., Mr. Schwarzenegger ad-libbed as follows: "What you just talked about is the waste overlapping agencies. They cost a fortune. We have to strip that down and get rid of some of those agencies."

That's the first legitimate, substantiated complaint so far. Didn't that feel good?

Quote

In another unscripted moment, this one relating to his behavior with women, the candidate said, "I don't remember so many of the things that I was accused of having done."
I believe him. For one thing, he's apparently been acting boorishly or worse for several decades. If you reach out and touch as many people as Arnold's supposed to have touched, it would be impossible to remember them all.

Oh, that's brilliant. He's honest and says he doesn't remember exactly what he did 25 years ago. It MUST be because he's a serial criminal, despite no charges having been filed, ever. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that there were, in fact, relatively few incidents and several people desperately seeking attention.

Quote

In the quote attributed to him in the book proposal, Mr. Schwarzenegger was unconcerned about the profound differences between a Kennedy and a Hitler. He was interested only in the wild applause, the unrestrained adulation and how he might get a taste of that for himself.

Back to this again? Saying that the adoration they received would be a rush is completely morally neutral.

Watch this: Hitler was an excellent public speaker. *gasps*. It's true, but it's not an endorsement, and it doesn't mean I'm unable to realize the depth of his crimes.

Quote

He just grabs whatever he wants. In this case, if he wins tomorrow, it will be the governorship of the biggest state in the union.
He will have grabbed nothing; he will have won it, fairly, in accordance with the constitution of California

Quote

He can do this because the public allows him to do it. After all, he's a movie star. The Terminator. Why should anyone demand that he come up with some kind of program for a Schwarzenegger administration? Or even demonstrate a minimal understanding of the state's problems, or how its government works?
Mr. Schwarzenegger is the favorite in California because, incredibly, he's perceived as a strong leader by many voters. In reality, he seems little more than an aging but still frisky goof-artist, a fun-loving egomaniac with a winning smile and very little understanding of what is appropriate behavior.
But he's played spectacularly strong leaders in one cartoonish movie after another. As scary as it seems, for a lot of voters in California, that's reason enough to hand him the reins of their government.

Precisely what I would expect from the most elite of the elite media. They can't accept the fact that the public support him for good reasons, so they have to assume people are just idiots.

Guess what? Are there a share of ideological voters for every candidate? Sure. Do they have anything to backup the assertion that people are voting for Arnold because he's the Terminator? Other than their own contempt for people like me, no.

So, we have contempt for you and yours (even if you agree with him this time, the way he feels about Arnold voters now is how he feels about YOU when you disagree with him... and he's hardly alone), guilt by association, out of context quotations, and the omission of several crucial facts. And snuck in the middle is one thing that is truly disturbing.

One for... eight isn't bad. And this is the best newspaper in the world?

This is merely desparation to try and get Arnold supporters to think.. "Gosh! I'm too SMART to vote for this guy!!. I'm confident Californians who were going to vote for Arnold before won't be swayed by this, and I salute them for not falling into the elitist trap.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 06 October 2003 - 11:26 AM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#2 MuseZack

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 10:08 AM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 6 2003, 02:19 PM, said:

Found via google, purely by accident:

http://www.nytimes.c...&partner=GOOGLE

It's a pretty typical piece; contempt for the American public (especially Arnold voters), distortions, and criticzing Arnold because of his career.

To be honest, this is so typical, I don't even know why I'm bothering. In the end, I decided it was such a perfect demonstration of where the NY Times is editorially right now that I couldn't resist.
Are you talking about the column they ran the day after this piece, from ostensible liberal Maureen Dowd?

Certainly, the bodybuilder-turned-phenom has had moments of being, to use David Letterman's word, a lunkhead. But I find the selective outrage of feminists just as offensive.

Feminism died in 1998 when Hillary allowed henchlings and Democrats to demonize Monica as an unbalanced stalker, and when Gloria Steinem defended Mr. Clinton against Kathleen Willey and Paula Jones by saying he had merely made clumsy passes, then accepted rejection, so there was no sexual harassment involved. As to his dallying with an emotionally immature 21-year-old, Ms. Steinem noted, "Welcome sexual behavior is about as relevant to sexual harassment as borrowing a car is to stealing one."

Surely what's good for the Comeback Kid is good for the Terminator.

"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#3 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 10:37 AM

Zack-- I never denied that they'll throw in editorials from the other side now and then. Indeed, it's a main talking point; every week it seems when somebody says the NYT OpEd page is overwhelmingly liberal, there's one column to point to as a counterexample.

Doing a search in the NY Times op ed database for Arnold's last name for the past seven days (I'd like to do more, but beyond that they lock their op-eds behind a subscription wall, and it's too hard to tell what they're saying from the title, usually):

Arnold's Biggest Fan-- Against Arnold, see above.
Win One For the Groper-- Pro-Arnold
From Pitchforks to Proposition 13-- Against Arnold, due to his unwillingness to touch prop 13. I'm counting it as a half because the writer doesn't actually come out and *say* that Arnold would be bad, and actually does a good job of being fairly objective.
Mr. Schwarzenegger Gets a Pass-- Against Arnold, complaining that the media hasn't been hard enough on him
A Role Best Denied-- Against Arnold, even going so far as to accuse him of exploiting 9/11 because he's getting campaign ads with Giuliani in them.

So, let's see... out of five editorials in seven days, we have 1 that supports him,  three and a half that oppose him, and half that seems fairly neutral.

The pro-Arnold piece is good to have in there, but it's an extremely unbalanced playing field.

EDIT: 5 really isn't enough of a sample size, and I'd bet the WSJ has more pro-Arnold than their fair share. It would be interesting, however, if somebody with a subscription did a fuller analysis. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 06 October 2003 - 10:43 AM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#4 Delvo

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 10:51 AM

And that doesn't even begin to touch the stuff they call "news reporting"...

#5 G1223

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 11:00 AM

Wow a whole editorial done from the right's perspective....................................................What was this 2 in 300 maybe 400 Op/Ed pieces. Basically this is the stuff that the right looks at and see nothing in the months that seem to show a counter-point.

It was one of the reason a friend from NY said never line your cat box with the NY Times Editorial page as your cat will say"This is redundent"
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#6 MuseZack

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 11:25 AM

G1223, on Oct 6 2003, 04:00 PM, said:

Wow a whole editorial done from the right's perspective....................................................What was this 2 in 300 maybe 400 Op/Ed pieces. Basically this is the stuff that the right looks at and see nothing in the months that seem to show a counter-point.

It was one of the reason a friend from NY said never line your cat box with the NY Times Editorial page as your cat will say"This is redundent"
Actually, the New York Times has William Safire as a regular columnist, and recently added David Brooks to the roster as well.  Of their regular op-ed columnists, economist Paul Krugman is usually liberal (although an ardent free trader), Nick Kristof mostly liberal although he mainly writes about undercovered stories like starvation and disease in Africa, Thomas Friedman is a free trader centrist who beat the drum incessantly for the Iraq war, Maureen Dowd ostensibly liberal though she's the kind of liberal who spends most of her time attacking other liberals, and Bob Herbert is usually liberal.  So while the op-ed page skews left, it does so not nearly as much as the Times' critics like to pretend.  They certainly don't skew as far to the right as the Wall Street Journal's editorial page lists to the right.

Zack

P.S.  This also leaves out the editorial page's nearly constant attacks on Clinton during the Whitewater scandal years of the late 1990s.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#7 Rhea

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 01:18 PM

You left out some of the good parts:

Quote

Welcome to the world of undiluted narcissism. The man who is now the betting favorite to become the next governor of the crazy state of California has spent a lifetime pirouetting in front of cameras and mirrors, contemplating his navel and every other part of his once-buff bod.

If there's a voter anywhere in the state who thinks this character will spend even a hot minute wrestling with the realities of budgets and such, that person should seek immediate counseling. There's a reason Mr. Schwarzenegger announced his candidacy on "The Tonight Show With Jay Leno." He doesn't want to govern. He just wants to be adored.

An article in The Times on Friday quoted the following telling passage attributed to Mr. Schwarzenegger in a book proposal:

"The feeling like Kennedy had, you know, to speak to maybe 50,000 people at one time and having them cheer, or like Hitler in the Nuremberg stadium. And have all those people scream at you and just being in total agreement with whatever you say."

And he did actually say the Hitler thing - it was not just in the book, it was an outtake from a film done on Arnie and bodybuilding.

Or this, which comes under the heading of a big D'OH:

Quote

Mr. Schwarzenegger has given us several striking examples of the danger inherent in a character speaking without a script. When a farmer asked him why California needed a state Environmental Protection Agency when there is also a federal E.P.A., Mr. Schwarzenegger ad-libbed as follows: "What you just talked about is the waste overlapping agencies. They cost a fortune. We have to strip that down and get rid of some of those agencies."

Oops. Arnold's handlers scriptwriters by any other name were quick to say he didn't really want to eliminate the state agency, Cal/E.P.A. No, no, no. He definitely didn't want to abolish the agency, which just happened to have been founded by the co-chairman of Mr. Schwarzenegger's campaign, Pete Wilson, the former California governor.

He's made many an inane and inaccurate statement about all sorts of stuff he doesn't understand. But that shouldn't stop anybody from voting for him. After all, we're not looking for someone who can govern, we're electing the Terminator. :p :p

And if that sounds like I'm denigrating Arnie supporters, you're damn right I am. I can't believe a reasonably sane adult would vote for this man.  :crazy:

Edited by Rhea, 06 October 2003 - 01:21 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#8 GiGi

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 01:34 PM

Rhea, on Oct 6 2003, 10:18 AM, said:

After all, we're not looking for someone who can govern, we're electing the Terminator. :p :p
Either that or a "Predator!!"
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#9 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 01:38 PM

Quote

And he did actually say the Hitler thing - it was not just in the book, it was an outtake from a film done on Arnie and bodybuilding

He did; he was, however, misquoted and the proper quote-- that he DIDN'T admire Hitler for what he did for it-- isn't the slightest bit daminng

Quote

He's made many an inane and inaccurate statement about all sorts of stuff he doesn't understand.

Obviously, other statements would be on a case-by-case basis.

Quote

But that shouldn't stop anybody from voting for him.

I disagree. I think the voters are smarter than you give them credit for.

Quote

After all, we're not looking for someone who can govern, we're electing the Terminator.

I disagree. EDIT: I phrased this poorly, initially. I'm sure there will be at least a small percentage... but I doubt more than that will vote for Bustamante will just because "A Hispanic should be governor!". You can't explain nearly 40% in the polls by "Well, people just like his movies".

Quote

And if that sounds like I'm denigrating Arnie supporters, you're damn right I am. I can't believe a reasonably sane adult would vote for this man.

I respectfully disagree. As mentioned, the former mayor of NYC and Senator John McCain have endorsed Arnold. Say what you will about them, but they're both reasonably sane adults... and, to many Americans, heroes for different reasons. <I feel that way about McCain, less so about the other one>

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 06 October 2003 - 01:52 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#10 G1223

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 02:36 PM

And of course Guy Davis has been so frugal with the states money and Bustamante has a love for people of all races aas long as thety are mexican.  Basically the alteratives are  a racist or a guy who had the misfortune to have been on duty when things went south. ( I mean the House and Senate of CA are not going to admit it was their mismanagment .... Btw was I mistaken or do the Democrates control the legislative branch as well?)
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#11 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 02:51 PM

I just have to say this:

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO RHEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!  I love it!
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#12 Rhea

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 02:54 PM

And Ahnold was apparently in bed with Enron. Your point?

At least Davis and Bustamante have *some* clue about governing a state - Arnie knows how to act - actually, I take that back because I've never thought clenching your jaw and shooting big guns as involving acting skills. :p

I didn't vote for Reagan and didn't particularly like him as governor, but at least he'd spent years in local politics and had um...you know, an actual position on issues instead of Arnie's vaporware. He's made so many stupid statements since he started that I hardly know where to begin...maybe with the hydrogen stations so we can all convert to hydrogen-powered vehicles? (Like Arnie's going to give up those gas-guzzling Hummers - and I'm about to sprout wings and fly off).  :suspect: Never mind that the cost would be prohibitive.  :blink:
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#13 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 02:57 PM

But Rhea, didn't you know that Ahhhhnold has a brilliant solution to our monetary problems?

We just ask the feds for more.

It's so SIMPLE I just can't even stand it!

:lol:  :rolleyes:  :lol:
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#14 G1223

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 02:57 PM

Yeah we need more guys like Davis and Bustie I mean they can skim cash with the best of them. After all Citizens being in political office is such a mistake I mean they need to leave to their masters...I mean servants to handle.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#15 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:00 PM

G-- I don't think anybody is defending Bustamante or Davis. Well, nobody here.

Most of us seem to have to come to the conclusion that all the candidates are subpar (which is just really sad, considering there are hundreds of them). Further, an argument against Davis and/or Bustamante isn't really support for Arnold; it merely means that they suck too.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#16 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:02 PM

G, I won't deny that this cast of choices is unpalatable.  I have reasons to dislike all THREE of them but um, Ahnold is not only unqualified, he says really dumb things AND he's with the wrong party (for me).  It's not a pretty choice but it is what it is.  I don't like Davis, who is imho a HORRIBLE governer, or Bustamante who may be experienced but is imo shifty, but hey, the alternative is a whole lot worse.

Edited by Una Salus Lillius, 06 October 2003 - 03:03 PM.

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#17 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:02 PM

^

Borg.

Ish.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#18 G1223

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:06 PM

Well it seems folks here are saying Arnie is the worse of those choices. I mean the guy has never held office and the two who have are rather repellant if you look at their behavior.

I never heard about Busti being brought to task for his statements about Blacks. Was he? Davis and his unwillingness to take steps to allow local energy companies to expand their abilities to generate. Did he change it?

Basically all I hear is the same stuff that two CAREER politicians can dig up to avoid losing becasue one is a racist and the other mismanaged the state in favor special interest groups.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#19 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:09 PM

^

Hoo Boy.

All right, in the interests of fairness, I really should defend Davis and Bustamante too.

Bustamante using the N-word. That was an accident. He's apoloigzed profusely. If you want to criticize him, skip N and go to 'M' for 'Money Laundering'

Quote

Davis and his unwillingness to take steps to allow local energy companies to expand their abilities to generate. Did he change it?

That was a mistake; however, the GOP state legislature has to take responsibility for their part of it too. As I recall-- and Californians, correct me if I'm wrong-- some ballot initiatives to allow greater power plants in the state also failed by popular election, and Davis can't be held accountable for that. (I'm not sure about that last part.. can anybody verify?)

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 06 October 2003 - 03:09 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#20 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:12 PM

Quote

Well it seems folks here are saying Arnie is the worse of those choices.

Yes.

So?  :p
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