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Elite Media Gets Desparate: NY Times Arnold Op-Ed

Media NYTimes Op-Ed

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#21 G1223

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:16 PM

And So with TWO PROFESSONIAL politicians they got it into this mess? I remember when Minn. voted for Ventura . Why did they becasue they were wanting to shake the tree and get the rotten apples out of it.

So why not McClintock Lil. He's a poltician?
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#22 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:19 PM

oh G if I only COULD vote for McKlintock.  He is by far the better candidate.

But the reality is that this remains a two party system.  Either a republican will win or a democrat will win.  Voting for McKlintock would be as bad as voting for Ahnold.

Yeah I know that sounds cynical and jaded.  :(  But it's still the way it is.

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#23 GiGi

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:20 PM

Okay, enough. I have heard people throwing around the word "racist" as if it were a donut at a donut party.

rac·ism  (r??s?z'?m) n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

rac?ist adj. & n.


In all of Bustemente's speeches and writings he is in favor of diversity and races getting along.  That is NOT racism.

So he is a member of MECHA, that doesn't make him racist any more than anyone who belongs to NAACP is a racist for being a part of that group.  A couple of weeks ago they interviewed the Watsonville (or maybe it was Salinas) MECHA members.  They were students just wanting to know about their culture.  Nicely dressed, respectable looking kids, not angry young rebels wanting to make California part of Mexico.  I seriously doubt there are many who do, but the ones who think like that get all of the press.

G1223, you need to present some REAL proof, REAL evidence, REAL facts that he is a practicing racist otherwise you are just slurring him.  That is not acceptable.
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#24 GiGi

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:23 PM

Yes, Rov, it was on Wilson's watch that the deregulation fiasco started.  Details were in the  links in the other Arnold thread.

I have to go to class so I can't search right now.  It is well documented, so it shouldn't be hard to find.
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#25 G1223

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:24 PM

And the line "jaw tightening is not acting" is not a slur? Oh that's right the two standards a republican most prove to be lilly white and still be ready to prove he is honest yet a Democrate as long as he does molest a child can still be seen as electable.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#26 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:25 PM

I thought so GiGi. Thanks for verifying the Wilson angle.

Bustamante and racism: I think his refusal to renounce the slogan "For the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing"-- which I saw live on Lester Holt-- is extremely, extremely troubling. If he can't renounce that, what can he renounce?

What, pray tell, would happen if Arnold was associated with a similar group that said, "For whites, everything. For non-whites, nothing."? Racism charges. Bustamante is getting a free pass in that regard.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 06 October 2003 - 03:26 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#27 G1223

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:29 PM

Well he would be labeled a racist and it would be on ABC CBS NBC CNN  in every major newspaper and the subject of late night news programs . With Arnold's picture being shown everywhere and a protest of a couple of dozen folks told to us as being across the state.

But thenagain that is the double standard at work proudly in CA
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#28 QueenTiye

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:32 PM

GiGi, on Oct 6 2003, 04:20 PM, said:

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

rac?ist adj. & n.
I think this is the operative definition here...

If someone supports a policy which says that no one else's interests count except their own race - I'm pretty sure that is discriminatory.  

QT

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#29 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:33 PM

Bingo QT.

My advice is to vote Arnold.

A vote for Coleman is a vote to change the system. It's about time a hobbit held office. :cool:

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 06 October 2003 - 03:33 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#30 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:39 PM

G I don't think that saying that someone can't act is even close to throwing around accusations of racism.

I too am troubled by Bustamante's refusal to renounce "For the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing".  I mean, that sounds like the Psi Corps or something.

But I stand by what I said before, it's not a pretty choice we're facing in California.  But *for me* the platform is more important than the candidate.  However I will also say that even if Arnold were a democrat I couldn't vote for him (I'd vote no on the recall and leave it at that), not because of some allegation about racism but because every single thing I've heard him say on the substantive issues (not that he's been all that willing to get into specifics on this stuff) demonstrates to me that he truly lacks any understanding of how things work.  He has stated that the answer to California's financial woes is to ask the Federal Government for more money as if we can just wave a magic wand or throw some pixie dust on the problem and it will just magically disappear.  This ALONE is reason enough for me not to vote for him.  But there's more.  He talks about repealing revenue sources like the newly increased car tax (btw I'm not saying I support that tax) and increasing revenue in the same breath.  He thinks that he can get more money without increasing revenue sources and that is just STUPID.  It's not that I think he's a racist, or a crook, or a sexual predator.  It's that I think he simply lacks the qualifications to get the job done.

No I don't think Bustamante and Davis are good candidates.  But they at least recognize some of the REALITIES of what is necessary to fix what's broke in California.


I'd love to kick them all out.  Or if Mr. McKlintock were running on the democrat ticket.

But as I said before, it is what it is.  

Bad news for California.

Lil
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#31 GiGi

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:40 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 6 2003, 12:25 PM, said:

I thought so GiGi. Thanks for verifying the Wilson angle.

Bustamante and racism: I think his refusal to renounce the slogan "For the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing"-- which I saw live on Lester Holt-- is extremely, extremely troubling. If he can't renounce that, what can he renounce?

What, pray tell, would happen if Arnold was associated with a similar group that said, "For whites, everything. For non-whites, nothing."? Racism charges. Bustamante is getting a free pass in that regard.
I understand your concerns about that.  But Bustemente hasn't said that himself.  Groups are a tricky thing, the various groups of MECHA may not all believe the same way.  The kids I saw on TV were not racists and they belong to the  group.

It is something that needs to be looked into before we on the outside of the group can judge, it may even be a poor translation from Spanish.  

My husband works with the UCSC MECHA group up on campus (not on the inside, but in his job he interfaces with them).  He has not encountered any hate speech or any organized "up with the Latino race, down with everyone else" attitudes.  So one sound bite by one person should not condemn everyone in the group.

Um, that is what everyone is up in arms about Rov.  Arnold's admiration for how people idolized Hilter is what worries a lot of people.  But doesn't seem to be hurting his poll numbers.
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#32 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:42 PM

Quote

He thinks that he can get more money without increasing revenue sources and that is just STUPID. It's not that I think he's a racist, or a crook, or a sexual predator. It's that I think he simply lacks the qualifications to get the job done.

Lil nailed it.

The media has fallen into Arnold's trap: They have so much contempt for the man that they've attacked him and not his policies. He fares far better on the personal front than the policy front.

If I was voting, I'd vote yes on the recall, and cast my vote for McClintock. If I was voting and McClintock wasn't an option, I'd vote no on the recall and leave the second part blank. I definitely feel Lil's pain, albeit from a forced perspective.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#33 GiGi

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:46 PM

^ I agree Rov 100%

I would vote McClintock too, if like Lil said he was on the Democratic ticket.  If he was ahead in the polls, I wouldn't be too worried.  It seems he has Calif's best interest in mind and some experience too.
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#34 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:46 PM

Quote

I understand your concerns about that.  But Bustemente hasn't said that himself.  Groups are a tricky thing, the various groups of MECHA may not all believe the same way.  The kids I saw on TV were not racists and they belong to the  group.

I'm not saying everybody in the group is racist, or even that the group itself is racist. What I am saying is that the softest question in the world should be, "Will you renounce the slogan 'for the race, everything, for those outside the race, nothing'?". The answer should be a quick and prompt, "Yes", and then they should move on. Bustamante hesitated, and then danced. It permanently damaged my perception of the man. Fortunately for him, roughly ten people watch the Lester Holt show.

Quote

It is something that needs to be looked into before we on the outside of the group can judge, it may even be a poor translation from Spanish. 

The translation is accurate, as far as I know and I've looked into the matter a fair bit; if there's another alternate translation, I'm missing.

Quote

My husband works with the UCSC MECHA group up on campus (not on the inside, but in his job he interfaces with them).  He has not encountered any hate speech or any organized "up with the Latino race, down with everyone else" attitudes.  So one sound bite by one person should not condemn everyone in the group.

It's not one sound bite by one person; it's part of their official motto, much like the Boy Scouts have "Be Prepared". Also, I know somebody in MECHA (over here, not in California), and she's a decent stand-up person.  

Quote

Um, that is what everyone is up in arms about Rov.  Arnold's admiration for how people idolized Hilter is what worries a lot of people.  But doesn't seem to be hurting his poll numbers.

I hear ya. And no, it's not hurting his poll numbers; I can understand why.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#35 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:47 PM

GiGi, on Oct 6 2003, 01:46 PM, said:

^ I agree Rov 100%

I would vote McClintock too, if like Lil said he was on the Democratic ticket.  If he was ahead in the polls, I wouldn't be too worried.  It seems he has Calif's best interest in mind and some experience too.
Lil, GiGi-- By 'democratic ticket' do you mean merely if he was running as a democrat, or if he had some policies different? I'm just making sure I understand ya.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#36 G1223

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:47 PM

So if I am correct Lil. Bustamanti refuses to disavow himself from an organization that is a mexican racist organization makes him not a racist yet Arnie admires Hitler for his speaking ability and Charisma  and he is labeled as such. Just wanting to make sure I was up on this.

Do not admire hitler but keep my dues paid up with the Klan andI will not be a rasicst?

WOW who knew.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#37 GiGi

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:48 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 6 2003, 12:46 PM, said:

It's not one sound bite by one person; it's part of their official motto, much like the Boy Scouts have "Be Prepared". Also, I know somebody in MECHA (over here, not in California), and she's a decent stand-up person.
I didn't know that.  I will ask hubby more about it since he knows the group quite well.
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#38 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 03:51 PM

I don't see how I can be any clearer about this.

Racism is not an issue for me in this election.  I've never met a person in my entire life that is entirely free of bias.  Ahnold may or may not have some admiration for the way that Hitler exercised power.  Bustamante may or may not be biased in favor of Latinos.

Neither one is a deal breaker for me.

For me it comes down to who, of the candidates with any chance of winning (and McKlintock hasn't got one) I feel will do the better job.

Ahnold is not the guy.

Lil

Edited by Una Salus Lillius, 06 October 2003 - 03:51 PM.

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#39 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 04:01 PM

GiGi-- I decided to fact check myself.

http://www.voznuestr...2003/_August/29

Quote

Fox News and O'Reilly also mistakenly say that MEChA's motto is "for the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing." Again, they have gotten wrong; actually the motto of MECHA is "La union hace la fuerza" (Unity creates power). Further the gaggle charges that MECHA has 300 chapters in universities across the U.S. making the false assumption that they have a national organization with a national office. MECHA is a student organization with no formal central body, it has no national office, it has no budget, and it has no constitution.

And:

http://ktla.trb.com/...oll=ktla-home-1

Quote

MEChA's motto is "La Union Hace La Fuerza," which means, "Unity Creates Power." MEChA members said another slogan that translates as "For the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing" is not the group's motto, as reported by some news organizations, but was used by Chicano activists before MEChA was founded.

However:

http://www.chronwatc...4057&mode=print

Quote

MEChA's motto is ''for the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing.''  Critics say affiliation with that kind of group could spell political ruin for a white candidate and are upset that little attention has been paid to Bustamante's relationship with the group.  He belonged to MEChA while attending Fresno State University in the 1970s.

It's hard to know what to believe; I was unaware of the alternate translation until now.

I'm tempted to believe that the more inflamnatory motto is the real one, as Bustamante didn't mention that Lester Holt had it wrong; if that was the case, he should have had that answer prepared.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#40 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 04:04 PM

well if the motto is in fact "La union hace la Fuerza" then the correct translation IS "Unity creates Power".

There is no "alternate translation" of that spanish phrase that even remotely comes close to  "for the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing."
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