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The Governator

California Arnold Schwarzenegger 2003

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#1 Rhea

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 10:32 AM

Rather than pissing and moaning about the Governator, I thought it might be fun to list his 100-day, 10-point plan and track his success. I'd love to hear everybody's comments. :p Let's use November 25th as the start date, because as I understand that's at the far end of the date scale (Nov. 15th being the earliest). So, lessee, that would have his hundred days end around the end of February - let's give him till March 15th. ;)

Per the www.joinarnold.com site (and this is a slide show list, folks - no particulars) - Arnie's list in caps, my comments follow each item.

1. REPEAL GRAY DAVIS' TRIPLING OF THE CAR TAX
http://www.sfgate.co...09/MN236143.DTL

Quote

The state budget shortfall is expected to be at least $7.9 billion, probably $10 billion. He would add another $4 billion by eliminating the car- fee increase. And he's facing the specter of another $10.7 billion hole if a court throws out a deficit-finance bond approved by the Legislature this year. Amid this, he promised again Wednesday not to raise taxes.

Where do you get the 4.2 billion to replace it? Good question. Do you repeal the tax before you figure this out? Should be interesting. :hehe:

2. FREEZE SPENDING AND LAUNCH AUDIT OF THE STATE BUDGET
Consider it done - in the first place, Davis *already froze* spending, so Arnie doesn't have to do anything there but set up the audit and take credit for all of it. :p

3. CALL SPECIAL SESSION AND MAKE SPENDING CUTS TO ADDRESS IMBALANCE (does this include the $4 billion lost on the car tax?)

4. GET OUR FAIR SHARE OF INDIAN GAMING REVENUE
Anything the Indians give the state is voluntary (they're federal not state jurisdiction), and an increase would also be voluntary, as Indian gaming is outside the state purview completely.

5. RENEGOTIATE STATE EMPLOYEE UNION CONTRACTS TO GET A BETTER DEAL FOR THE TAXPAYERS.

Mercifully, my union, CSEA, already concluded a deal for a 2-year contract, so I hope Arnie can't touch this one - we've already had to deal with salary freezes, layoffs and benefit cuts - and in direct contradiction to what every politician mouths, there are fewer teachers per student this year because there's no other way to work with the two years of budget cuts we've already experienced.

6. PASS A JOBS PACKAGE WITH REAL WORKER'S COMP REFORM.
A Workers' Comp reform bill had already passed, and everyone agrees there's more work to be done, so yes - but it won't be Arnie's doing, since it's already in the works

7. SUBMIT 04-05 BUDGET THAT CLOSES DEFICIT & RESTRUCTURES INHERITED DEBT  

8. STREAMLINE BUREAUCRACY AND SEND MORE MONEY TO THE CLASSROOM (see number 2 above - it's hard to reconcile the reality with the promise, but we'll see)

9. REPEAL SB-60, THE LAW THAT GIVES DRIVER'S LICENSES TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

(I agree with him on this one - sort of. It's a huge problem in this state for the simple reason that illegal immigrants drive regardless. I think the legislature was trying to hem them in so that they would at least have to pass a driving test to be able to drive. But I think a more appropriate first step would be to legalize them so they can start paying their fair share into the system to help offset the enormous amount of benefits they're draining out of it.)

10. PASS OPEN GOVERNMENT AMENDMENT AND BAN FUNDRAISING DURING THE BUDGET PROCESS.

I'm with him on part 1 in theory. Which documents do you make public? How do you protect individual privacy?

Part 2, IMHO, is nave. All legislators are influenced by some combination of special interest groups, and banning fundraising during the budget process is going to make them any less in the pocket of their particular groups.

So the end of February, beginning of March we can do an Arnie report card and see how he does. :upside:

Edited to fix typo  :blush:

Edited by Rhea, 09 October 2003 - 10:34 AM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#2 Rov Judicata

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 10:46 AM

Quote

REPEAL GRAY DAVIS' TRIPLING OF THE CAR TAX

Good.

Quote

2. FREEZE SPENDING AND LAUNCH AUDIT OF THE STATE BUDGET

Good, although the point about Davis is taken.

Quote

3. CALL SPECIAL SESSION AND MAKE SPENDING CUTS TO ADDRESS IMBALANCE

Play hardball. I think what Arnold is implying in some of his pseeches is that he'll refuse to comply with unfunded mandates unless the feds pony up the cash... which would include significiant savings on illegal immigrant services. Frankly, if that's his plan, I'm fine with that.

Quote

4. GET OUR FAIR SHARE OF INDIAN GAMING REVENUE
Anything the Indians give the state is voluntary (they're federal not state jurisdiction), and an increase would also be voluntary, as Indian gaming is outside the state purview completely.

True. That doesn't mean the government can't make life hard for the casinos until they pay up. Back in stomping grounds of Chicago, the roads surrounding the non-compliant businsess would most likely be target for immediate, long reconstruction....

Quote

5. RENEGOTIATE STATE EMPLOYEE UNION CONTRACTS TO GET A BETTER DEAL FOR THE TAXPAYERS.

Obviously, Arnold should take whatever concessions he could get from the unions. That's why the unions exist; so the governor doesn't have a conflict of interests vis a vis state employees.

Quote

6. PASS A JOBS PACKAGE WITH REAL WORKER'S COMP REFORM.

It's in the works, but get it done.

Quote

7. SUBMIT 04-05 BUDGET THAT CLOSES DEFICIT & RESTRUCTURES INHERITED DEBT

Good.

Quote

8. STREAMLINE BUREAUCRACY AND SEND MORE MONEY TO THE CLASSROOM

Good.

Quote

9. REPEAL SB-60, THE LAW THAT GIVES DRIVER'S LICENSES TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

Excellent. Next, work on making it as hard as possible for illegals to get services. Good god, giving illegals drivers licenses is letting them vote.

Quote

But I think a more appropriate first step would be to legalize them

They'll be perfectly legal when we wake up and send them back to their home country. ;).

Quote

10. PASS OPEN GOVERNMENT AMENDMENT AND BAN FUNDRAISING DURING THE BUDGET PROCESSS

First part good; second part stupid. It just means that they'll make deals along the lines of, "If you do this, I'll give you this after the budget cycle is over". Ultimately, it's up to the voter to hold politicians accountable for where they get their money.

We'll see. :).
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#3 Rhea

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 11:26 AM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 9 2003, 08:46 AM, said:

Quote

But I think a more appropriate first step would be to legalize them

They'll be perfectly legal when we wake up and send them back to their home country. ;).
I'd agree, except it's not feasible in this state. We have literally millions of illegal immigrants in this state. Basically the guys loiter on street corners until somebody comes by and offers them a job illegally (and I just HATE running a gauntlet of Hispanic male loiterers to buy gas in the morning). Gah.

As far as I can tell, neither the state nor the feds are willing or able to expend the resources to send them all back, and they just come back again anyway.

So why not give them green cards and let them pay taxes like everyone else?

The current situation is only working for business owners too cheap to hire legal labor at minumum wage. It's bad for the illegals because they have no protection from exploitation under the law. It's bad for the state because huge sums are spent making them comfy - education for their children, translators, community liasons, community day care, advocates who help them work the system, health care for their children (and believe me, the second an illegal immigrant lands a child in special ed, some advocate is teaching them how to apply for social security disability benfits for that child, something most Americans don't know how to do).

So my feeling is that if they're going to suck the system dry, then they should damn well be legal and pay taxes.

I don't think the drivers license bill is a bad thing, it's just assbackwards. First we need to get them green cards, then make sure they can meet the driving standards. And Lord have mercy, anyone who's ever driven in Mexico can tell you that driving standards are a mite different there.

Edited by Rhea, 09 October 2003 - 11:31 AM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#4 GiGi

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 11:28 AM

Quote

The state budget shortfall is expected to be at least $7.9 billion, probably $10 billion. He would add another $4 billion by eliminating the car- fee increase. And he's facing the specter of another $10.7 billion hole if a court throws out a deficit-finance bond approved by the Legislature this year. Amid this, he promised again Wednesday not to raise taxes.
Where do you get the 4.2 billion to replace it? Good question. Do you repeal the tax before you figure this out? Should be interesting.

First of all this car tax think is not clearly stated.  We were recently at the DMV registering our car.  We asking the clerk (with the personality of a pit bull) about the tax.  She said it is misleading to say the car fees are tripling.  Only one part of the fee is tripling and only because the discount that California drivers were enjoying was being taken away.  So it was going to cost what it should cost all along.  If someone bought a new car, yah, it would be high, on but older cars it wouldn't be too bad.  Also it wasn't the way they originally planned to raise taxes.

Quote

ut Hilary McLean, a spokeswoman for Gov. Gray Davis,  emphasized the higher fees were not the governor's idea and that they could  have been avoided.

She blamed Republicans for failing to approve the governor's original  budget proposal. It called for increases on tobacco taxes, sales taxes and tax  rates on wealthier residents, but not vehicle license fees.

LINK

As to the other points all I can say is that Arnold most likely will not get more money from the Indian tribes or the State Employee Unions.  THe Union President already said that he isn't going to budge.  Unlike Labor Unions the folks in this Union are already making a third less than the private sector in comparable jobs.  Hubby is in one at UCSC, at $17 an hour part time it is hard to raise three kids, how much lower can he go?! Answer - NONE

The only thing I see that is viable is the Workman's compensation and as we said that was being worked on.

Perhaps Arnie could ask his friends at Enron and whatever company that was a front for to give back the $9 billion stolen from us.  That would fix quite a few problems right there.
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#5 Rov Judicata

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 11:33 AM

Rhea-- My motive is simple pragmatism. If we start giving illegals green cards, then we remove incentive for anybody to enter the country legally. It might help in the short term, but it sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

Most Americans want the border secured, and illegals dealt with.The only reason it hasn't happened by now is that the politicians simply don't live in our world. At this point, we just have to convince them that we really mean it. Given increasing public exasperation, I do hope to see it become a bigger issue in presidential debates.

Texas is pretty much assured to Bush, I would think... but the other three border states have the potential to go either way, and have a fair amount of electoral votes (okay, mostly California ;)). Maybe I'm being optimistic, but this could become a big deal, particularly if Arnold starts fanning the flames a bit.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#6 Rhea

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 11:33 AM

(Rovvie got in the way - I was actually answering Gigi ;) )

^Tell me about it. Rather than taking pay cuts, we agreed to cut back on benefits with the result for me that my monthly expenditure on prescriptions will more than double (and believe me, I can't afford it, but have no choice - I have arthritis and have to have Vioxx or be in pain all the time).

Edited by Rhea, 09 October 2003 - 11:34 AM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#7 Rhea

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 11:52 AM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 9 2003, 09:33 AM, said:

Rhea-- My motive is simple pragmatism. If we start giving illegals green cards, then we remove incentive for anybody to enter the country legally. It might help in the short term, but it sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

Most Americans want the border secured, and illegals dealt with.The only reason it hasn't happened by now is that the politicians simply don't live in our world. At this point, we just have to convince them that we really mean it. Given increasing public exasperation, I do hope to see it become a bigger issue in presidential debates.

Texas is pretty much assured to Bush, I would think... but the other three border states have the potential to go either way, and have a fair amount of electoral votes (okay, mostly California ;)). Maybe I'm being optimistic, but this could become a big deal, particularly if Arnold starts fanning the flames a bit.
It's not that nobody wants it - it's that closing down the vast stretch of border between the US and Mexico is almost impossible, and the INS would have to have a HUGE force to deal with getting rid of the current crop.

Personally, I'd like them all to go back where they came from too. I just don't think it's going to happen. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of illegal immigrants in my county alone. The local police forces can't help the INS, who don't have the personnel to deal with it.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#8 Bad Wolf

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 12:00 PM

One of the most telling things that happened at the press conference yesterday had to do with the car tax.

Remember all those campaign ads where he said "outrageous. I'll repeal it."

Well in the press conference someone asked him about it and his answer was that he was having his legal people look into how to do that.

Hello?  Don't make a promise without FIRST looking into HOW it can be kept?

I fear that this is how his whole plan is.

Lil
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#9 Rov Judicata

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 12:11 PM

Lil-- That was, to say the least, troubling.

Quote

It's not that nobody wants it - it's that closing down the vast stretch of border between the US and Mexico is almost impossible, and the INS would have to have a HUGE force to deal with getting rid of the current crop.

I think we could try. I bet it could be done, if the will was present. Just sending back people who the police find that aren't legal would be a huge step.

Anyway, this is kind of a threadjack, and a hypothetical. ;).

We'll see what happens. I'm still an Arnold-skeptic, but I haven't dismissed him out of hand.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#10 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 12:34 PM

Rhea, on Oct 9 2003, 04:52 PM, said:

It's not that nobody wants it - it's that closing down the vast stretch of border between the US and Mexico is almost impossible
Actually the borders can be tightened a lot against illegals if the proper steps were taken.  Basically look back to my earlier posts on winning the drug war through better interdiction efforts.  Such a step could be used to not only stymie the flow of drugs; it could do the same to the illegals coming across the borders.

The first is canning the current Federal Alphabet Soup Agencies that all fight over border security.  That means bringing elements of INS, US Customs, Border Patrol, and the US Coast Guard all under the umbrella of a single agency.  The agency would be a civilian agency but have extensive access to military grade hardware and use paramilitary tactics.  That way the Border Security Force could deal with the Mexican Military on even terms the next time they attempt to escort illegals or drugs into US territory.  Of course there would be progressive levels of force that would be used to stop a infringement on the borders.  The actual monitoring of the border could be done at much lower cost using remote sensing platforms and high endurance UAVs.  With surveillance in dept rather than a isolated tract near the border you can keep a real time track on illegals to vector in officers either by vehicles or helicopter/tiltrotor borne officers.  

Less bloody than the land mine option I've heard suggested before. ;)
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#11 Rov Judicata

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 12:37 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Oct 9 2003, 10:34 AM, said:

Actually the borders can be tightened a lot against illegals if the proper steps were taken.
*looks at CJ's sig*

Quote

"There is no problem that cannot be solved with applied use of nuclear weapons."

:ninja:
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#12 jon3831

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 12:39 PM

^ :ninja:

;)
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#13 Kevin Street

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 12:47 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 9 2003, 10:33 AM, said:

Most Americans want the border secured, and illegals dealt with.The only reason it hasn't happened by now is that the politicians simply don't live in our world. At this point, we just have to convince them that we really mean it. Given increasing public exasperation, I do hope to see it become a bigger issue in presidential debates.
But it's more complicated than just closing down the border. In California (and to a lesser degree in many other states) large segments of the economy depend upon illegal immigrants as their primary workforce. If the migrants were no longer available and industries like the strawberry growers had to pay minimum wage to their workers, they would no longer turn a profit and might just shut down. Thus, there would be stong lobbying from commercial concerns against any attempt to remove all illegal migrants.


EDIT: Oh, and props to Rhea for starting a fascinating thread! It should be very interesting to refer back here a hundred days from now and see how Ah-nuld is doing. ;)

Edited by Kevin Street, 09 October 2003 - 12:49 PM.

Per aspera ad astra

#14 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 12:48 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 9 2003, 05:37 PM, said:

*looks at CJ's sig*

Quote

"There is no problem that cannot be solved with applied use of nuclear weapons."

:ninja:
Some nuclear land mines were made back in the day... ;)
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#15 jon3831

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 12:54 PM

^Wow, Mr. Aegis! Is there anything that can't be fixed by the applied use of nuclear weapons?

</1950s Department of Energy Propaganda Film>

;)
"The issue is not war and peace, rather, how best to   preserve our freedom."
                    --General Russell E. Dougherty, USAF

WWCELeMD?

#16 Rhea

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 01:02 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Oct 9 2003, 10:00 AM, said:

One of the most telling things that happened at the press conference yesterday had to do with the car tax.

Remember all those campaign ads where he said "outrageous. I'll repeal it."

Well in the press conference someone asked him about it and his answer was that he was having his legal people look into how to do that.

Hello?  Don't make a promise without FIRST looking into HOW it can be kept?

I fear that this is how his whole plan is.

Lil
He also said that he could repeal it with a mere signature,which also may not be true. Amateurs.  :wacko:

As Gigi said earlier, it's not that they created a NEW tax, it's that they repealed a hold on the original tax.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#17 Bad Wolf

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 01:08 PM

^

WORD!
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#18 Rhea

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 01:34 PM

I can't WAIT to revisit this the end of February and grade Arnie.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#19 Norville

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 10:21 PM

Quote

9. REPEAL SB-60, THE LAW THAT GIVES DRIVER'S LICENSES TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
(I agree with him on this one - sort of. It's a huge problem in this state for the simple reason that illegal immigrants drive regardless. I think the legislature was trying to hem them in so that they would at least have to pass a driving test to be able to drive.

Once I got around to thinking about it harder, I felt a little less disgusted by it and a little more suspecting that it might actually have been a good security measure, a way to track the illegals. Keep track of them, so that when they drive like maniacs, we might at least know who that hit-and-run driver was... and it might work for things other than driving, too. If we want to pay closer attention to illegals in case of terrorism, that's a way.

Quote

But I think a more appropriate first step would be to legalize them so they can start paying their fair share into the system to help offset the enormous amount of benefits they're draining out of it.)

Legalize every one of them?? I do agree, if they want to live here and get our benefits, they deserve all the taxation we can give 'em. ;)

Quote

And Lord have mercy, anyone who's ever driven in Mexico can tell you that driving standards are a mite different there.

Believe me... if you drive there, pray! They drive as if commending their souls to God, as if they'll probably die anyway, so they might as well drive badly and leave it in God's hands. ;)

Quote

My motive is simple pragmatism. If we start giving illegals green cards, then we remove incentive for anybody to enter the country legally. It might help in the short term, but it sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

Agreed on that, though I'd hate to go as far as nuclear land mines... :eek:

Quote

In California (and to a lesser degree in many other states) large segments of the economy depend upon illegal immigrants as their primary workforce. If the migrants were no longer available and industries like the strawberry growers had to pay minimum wage to their workers, they would no longer turn a profit and might just shut down.

I'm going to recommend that everybody read a book again -- Mexifornia by Victor Davis Hanson. We might resent the hell out of illegals, but the migrants often work their butts off doing incredibly hard work that American citizens are unlikely to want to touch, unless they grew up on farms (and, sadly, almost no Americans have farm experience in these ever-so-modern times, but we still need what farmers produce!).

Quote

I can't WAIT to revisit this the end of February and grade Arnie.

Looking forward to it!
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Rule#6: Remember the future.
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#20 Uncle Sid

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 11:06 PM

Quote

I'm going to recommend that everybody read a book again -- Mexifornia by Victor Davis Hanson. We might resent the hell out of illegals, but the migrants often work their butts off doing incredibly hard work that American citizens are unlikely to want to touch, unless they grew up on farms (and, sadly, almost no Americans have farm experience in these ever-so-modern times, but we still need what farmers produce!).

Well, if we need them, and yet farmers in the US cannot pay them unless they want to risk going out of business, then the simple answer is to either:

a) repeal the minimum wage for that class of workers

or

b) create a guest worker classification for those jobs only that is not covered by minimum wage.  They are taxed minimally to pay for emergency features and a *small* fee from employers for each worker for each guest worker for the same purpose.

Green carding illegals will not work.  The fact is that if you green card illegals, then you have to pay them minimum wage.  If you have to pay them minimum wage, then businesses aren't going to hire them, they are going to hire a new illegal who they can employ cheaply.  The old illegal who is now legal becomes a government sanctioned welfare recipient because they have no skills and you still end up with illegal aliens.  Rinse, lather, repeat.  Congratulations, you've just doubled the problem.
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, 2003

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