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Rush admits he's hooked, checks into rehab

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#41 Bad Wolf

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 12:59 AM

Um, Kevin, and telling people whether it's okay or not to feel strongly about an OT topic is helpful...

how?

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#42 Kevin Street

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 01:02 AM

Just trying to moderate. :angel:

#43 Uncle Sid

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 01:11 AM

What I think Kev means is that its possible with the wonderful group of people that we have here, that we can all feel strongly about a certain issue and still treat each other civilly despite that.  

However, I am seeing some remarks that are definitely starting to be out of bounds in terms of personal attacks.  That is unacceptable, and I'll find myself exceedingly disappointed if it continues.  Maintaining the ability to express your opinion is contingent upon each one of us taking responsibility for regulating ourselves.  If they cannot or will not do that, free speech is undermined.  You don't have to like what someone else says, but as long as they keep it in-bounds, you can as well.
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#44 Shalamar

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 03:39 AM

I have utterly no idea of what perscription pain medications Rush was taking/addicted to however ...

OxyContin is indeed a FDA regulated pain medication, not some made up name....oxycodone HCl controlled-release is the official name of the drug.

#45 Drew

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 09:00 AM

MuseZack, on Oct 12 2003, 12:49 AM, said:

It's a hot topic and I'm having fun baiting the Rush fans.  'Tis all in good fun...
I thought "baiting" wasn't allowed.  :angel:

And Delvo, it's not like Zack used the word "Dylbo" or something. That'd be worth at least a dozen pages of invective.  :angel:

Edited by Drew, 12 October 2003 - 09:02 AM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#46 gaius claudius

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 09:04 AM

AS for the actual drug
[url="http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/oxycontin/default.htm"]http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/oxyc...tin/default.htm[/url]

my home state (maine) is one of those where the abuse of this drug has gone through the roof....is also called 'Hillbilly Heroin' :wacko:


[quote]That's it; it's all about the race of people other than Rush who did different deeds under different circumstances, and whose stories don't intersect with this in any way except for your thinking of this as yet another excuse to fling the "racist" label around.[/quote]

If you do the research you can easily find the evidence for Zack's statement


New York Times...June 8th edition  2000
by Steven Holmes
[QUOTE]By STEVEN A. HOLMES
ASHINGTON, June 7 -- Nearly twice as many black men and women are being imprisoned for drug offenses than are whites, even though studies show that there are five times more white drug users than black ones, an international human rights organization said today.
The report by Human Rights Watch joins a growing body of evidence compiled by liberal advocacy groups showing racial disparities in the country's soaring prison population. That population has quadrupled since 1980 and is expected to surpass two million next year.

"These racial disparities are a national scandal," Ken Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch said. "Black and white drug offenders get radically different treatment in the American justice system. This is not only profoundly unfair to blacks, it also corrodes the American ideal of equal justice for all."

The report noted that the overwhelming bulk of the increase in the prison population could be attributed to drug offenses. The report said 62.7 percent of drug offenders sent to prison in 1996, the last year for which complete statistics were available, were African-American, while 36.7 percent were white.

The Census Bureau estimates that blacks currently make up about 12.8 percent of the population and that whites, including Hispanic whites, are about 82.3 percent.

While the Human Rights Watch underlined the racial disparities in the criminal justice system, other experts in the field said the issue was more complicated than racism.

Experts at the Bureau of Criminal Justice Statistics, a division of the Justice Department, say that while studies indicate there are five times as many white users of illegal drugs as black users, drug abuse among African-Americans tends to be more chronic and involve harder drugs such as crack cocaine and heroin.

Indeed, studies suggest black incarceration rates are still being fueled by the crack cocaine epidemic of the 1980's, which helped produce a cadre of chronic drug users, most of whom are above the age of 30. Many of these abusers have either been imprisoned for long sentences or have been in and out of a criminal justice system that fails to provide very much in the way of drug treatment, said Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey, director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy.

"Regardless of how severe you wish to be on punishing them you simply have to give them a drug-free prison environment," Mr. McCaffrey said. "And there has to be a follow-on component. That, I would allege is the largest issue."

In today's report, Human Rights Watch based its study on prison admissions statistics in 1996. States voluntarily provide statistics to the Justice Department, and the study does not include figures for the 13 states that chose not to report statistics.

In much of the country, though, the report paints a picture of stark disparities. In Illinois and Maryland, Africans-Americans represent 90 percent of those who were incarcerated for selling or using drugs. In five other states -- Louisiana, New Jersey, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia -- blacks make up more than 80 percent of those imprisoned on drug offenses.

Researchers from Human Rights Watch point to a myriad of causes for the disproportionately high number of blacks incarcerated for drugs.

They note that because so much of the drug activity in poor black neighborhoods is conducted on the street, sellers and users are easier to spot and arrest. In addition, they contend that law enforcement agencies direct much of their resources to combating drug activity in black areas, rather than in white neighborhoods where drug sales and use tend to occur behind closed doors.

Also low-income African-Americans often cannot afford lawyers to win them more lenient sentences.

Whatever the reason, Human Rights officials say, the numbers of African-Americans being sent to prison far out of line with the proportion of blacks and whites shown in studies to use and sell drugs.

And they say that the disparities need to be addressed by politicians, including the two presidential contenders.

"I think racial disparities in the criminal justice system is like the elephant in the room that no one is talking about," said Jamie Fellner, associate counsel of Human Rights Watch and the report's author. "I find it incomprehensible that neither of the Presidential candidates is talking about this. There still is a timidity to say anything that would lend them being accused of being soft on crime. Nobody is willing to say enough is enough." [QUOTE]

I'm not necessarily calling Rush a rascist..although Lord knows the man has said more then enough things over the years to be considered one...Its just my opinion (and I think events over the next few weeks will bear this out) That Mr. Limbaugh isn't going to do a bit of time for his procurement illegally of perscription drugs..call it celebrity..disparity between rich and poor...rascism...

It just ain't gonna happen..

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#47 Delvo

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 10:10 AM

Shalamar, on Oct 12 2003, 02:39 AM, said:

OxyContin is indeed a FDA regulated pain medication, not some made up name.
Ya, I knew that, but the drug Rush used has not been named, so Zack's making up names to act as if they were it. He started at heroine, a drug with obvious implications about crime and lifestyle. Then he switched to a drug that's been in the news lately as the drug that people were breaking into pharmacies to steal, and had articles written about how it's ruining entire generations in some towns. (One such story was pretty funny; the would-be thieves got the thing's name wrong and were caught with oxytocin instead. Quoth the prosecutor: "Teenaged boys with swollen, sensetive breasts and a tendency to cuddle might not do well in prison.")

#48 Delvo

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 10:22 AM

MuseZack, on Oct 11 2003, 11:49 PM, said:

I'm having fun baiting the Rush fans.
Now I get it... although, technically, baiting isn't a part of trolling, in the original fishing terminology, so it's kind of linguisticly funny that they're called the same now in this context. I generally don't bother responding to trolls, but this one got me because it came from somebody who hadn't been a troll before that I recalled. Now I know you're a troll, recently transformed or otherwise being irrelevant, so this is over. No more food from me.

#49 Blondie

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 10:38 AM

Delvo, on Oct 12 2003, 09:10 AM, said:

Ya, I knew that, but the drug Rush used has not been named, so Zack's making up names to act as if they were it.
Actually, it has been named...here:
http://www.foxnews.c...3,98871,00.html
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#50 Rhea

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 12:04 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 10 2003, 01:55 PM, said:

Most likely, Dave.

The consequences of treating so many people with so much contempt is that you have few friends when you're in a tight spot. Many members of our media would do well to remember that.
Yup.

Who knows? Maybe some of the obnoxiousness is chemically induced. Not knowing how long he's been addicted, who knows? Could be a sober, detoxed Rush is a kinder, gentler Rush.  :eek2:
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#51 Rhea

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 12:10 PM

Delvo, on Oct 10 2003, 07:27 PM, said:

Get a grip on yourself there, Zack. Cocaine's not something you can get sucked into by treatment for a medical condition as prescribed by your physician, and neither that nor the "heroine" you name is what Rush has a problem with; it's illegal altogether and only used as part of the irresponsible "party lifestyle", right from the start. And his derogative comments about those people related to their whole lifestyle, not just the drug use that tends to represent it. And the whole point of what he's saying there is that it is the responsibility of the drug user himself/herself, which is a responsibility that he has taken upon himself in his own case.

A lot of that defense looks paler if he turns out to be guilty of crimes, but the comments themselves are neither false nor hypocritical nor black-hearted, just blunt.

(BTW, the TV show ended at least a full year before he began taking this medicine, possibly two or three, and thus more than that before he shold have stopped and the addiction had set in... not that I think the timing makes it better or worse, but just for context...)

And... hillbilly? That's like calling him a Geisha girl!
Actually, the medications have been named, and they're a trio of barbituates, two out of the three being highly addictive - and one of which likely caused his hearing loss. But I'm with Zack. It's hard to find sympathy for a man who wrote this:

Quote

"And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up."

So, by his own standards, his ass should be rotting in jail, since he was buying his presciption painkillers illegally.  People who live in glass houses really ought to put on some clothes.  :devil:
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
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When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#52 Kimmer

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 12:50 PM

I was asked by Moderator Kevin - in the interest of keeping peace here at Ex Isle - to remove or edit my original post in this thread, as it was close to a personal flame.

I said not until Zack removed his offensive comments.

Then I decided that "in the interest of Ex Isle", I would go ahead and remove my comments. Before I did so, however, I read the new comment from Zack about "baiting". That really ticked me off, so I left my comment in the thread.

I've now decided that lowering myself to other people's level is a waste of my time and energy. So, I have removed my original post.

However, at this point in time, I will now be bowing out of this forum. I have kept my mouth shut over several issues, because I have friends on the opposite side of the fence and I knew that my comments could be hurtful.

Since no one seems to give a rat's behind if MY feelings are hurt -- either I have to come in here and go no holes barred, or I have to stay away.

I'd rather stay away.


kimmer - gone from OT

#53 Kosh

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 12:51 PM

Quote

Actually, the medications have been named, and they're a trio of barbituates, two out of the three being highly addictive - and one of which likely caused his hearing loss. But I'm with Zack. It's hard to find sympathy for a man who wrote this:


Some local radio folks looked into it, none of the drugs he was said to have been taking would have caused the hearing loss.

Oxycontin has been causing more problems then any other drug in West Virginia the last two years. One person I know has died taking it, many other have died, and many more addicted.


Rush said it in the release, it's his fault, and he will take responsablity for his own actions. Should he go to jail? Most people who have this kind of problem do not end up in jail, the first time they go before a judge. Unless he has hurt someone along the way, Rush should not go to jail.



Quote

"And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up."

Should yet another life be ruined over a drug that is so addictive that very few can walk away from it?
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#54 HubcapDave

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 01:05 PM

^Um, Rhea.


It has yet to be determined that he purchased these drugs illegally, National Enquirer stories notwithstanding. If he did purchase them illegally, he most certainly should face the music and, indeed, would lose all credibility if he did not. But that has not been proven or adjudicated yet. Therefore, it would behoove you to not to assert the notion like it was a fact until we know for certain.


From MuseZack:

Quote

...and there are literally thousands of young black men in prison for possessing smaller amounts of less harmful mind-altering substances than the Oxycontin Rush popped like tic tacs.

I have a few problems with this statement. You don't know for instance even if Rush had gotten his painkillers illegally. That has not been proven yet. If he didn't, then he did not break the law and should not be in jail. And when you say stuff like "...popped like tic tacs.".......man, that is just being petty! You're making the man out to be a recreational user when the circumstances clearly indicate otherwise!

#55 G1223

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 01:14 PM

Welll Since "Baiting" is allowed and has NO punishment.

I will be leaveing OT as I am getting to where debate about topics concerning the actions of liberals or conservatives means that Trolling will be allowed by the left while punished upon the right.

Got to say the Balance is gone from the this forum
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#56 Cardie

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 01:15 PM

My feeling is that if you make your living spouting one-sided, nasty denunciations of any particular group, and you end up being a member of that group, then I have NO sympathy for you. If Michael Moore were caught selling illegal Saturday night specials or Al Franken belonged to a club that excluded racial minorities or James Carvile was profiting from insider trading on Halliburton stock, I would feel exactly the same way.

Limbaugh consistently bashed people who were addicts, irrespective of the source of their drugs or whether they had them legally. He bashed them for being weak-willed and incapable of making the proper moral choice. That makes him a hypocrite in my book--unless he said that while admitting to addiction himself without first having been caught out at it.

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#57 Rhea

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 01:33 PM

[quote name='HubcapDave' date='Oct 12 2003, 11:05 AM']^Um, Rhea.


It has yet to be determined that he purchased these drugs illegally, National Enquirer stories notwithstanding. If he did purchase them illegally, he most certainly should face the music and, indeed, would lose all credibility if he did not. But that has not been proven or adjudicated yet. Therefore, it would behoove you to not to assert the notion like it was a fact until we know for certain.


From MuseZack:

[quote]...and there are literally thousands of young black men in prison for possessing smaller amounts of less harmful mind-altering substances than the Oxycontin Rush popped like tic tacs.[/quote]

I have a few problems with this statement. You don't know for instance even if Rush had gotten his painkillers illegally. That has not been proven yet. If he didn't, then he did not break the law and should not be in jail. And when you say stuff like "...popped like tic tacs.".......man, that is just being petty! You're making the man out to be a recreational user when the circumstances clearly indicate otherwise! [/quote]
I don't read the National Enquirer, now or ever, so I wouldn't know what they alleged.

[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10613-2003Oct10.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2003Oct10.html[/url]

This is, by the way, is by his own admission his THIRD time in rehab, not his
first.:

[quote]Limbaugh, 52, said he had twice checked into rehabilitation clinics over the last half-dozen years in an effort to break his addiction and would do so again immediately. He said he could not discuss the investigation, which is based in part on the account of a former housekeeper at his $30 million Palm Beach County estate.[/quote]

So over the last decade, while he was pounding addicts and drugs, he was addicted himself.

That makes him one of the all-time great hypocrites and double-talkers, in my book.

If what's been published so far is to be believed, he was illegally buying OxyContin and hydrocodone through his maid. Oxycontin is HUGELY addictive and extremely powerful, and if what's been printed is true, it may have been responsible for his hearing loss.

He isn't the target of a criminal investigation because he was taking legally prescribed drugs, but because he was taking ILLEGALLY obtained drugs:

[url="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2133205"]http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/s.../sports/2133205[/url]

[quote]Law enforcement sources who spoke on condition of anonymity confirmed to The Associated Press that Limbaugh is being investigated by the Palm Beach County state attorney's office for allegedly buying drugs.[/quote]

[quote]The Daily News, without identifying its source, reported today that Limbaugh was being investigated by the Palm Beach County state attorney's office. The newspaper said it had independently confirmed the allegations, first reported by the National Enquirer.[/quote]

[url="http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2003/devine-molin/qtr4/1007.htm"]http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2003...n/qtr4/1007.htm[/url]

[quote]Although most people are focused upon Limbaugh's legal circumstances, much more is at stake. Drug addiction is a life-threatening condition, which requires proper intervention. Reports indicate that Limbaugh had been rapidly detoxed twice, but returned to drugs both times. Of course he has to undergo another detoxification, and not of the dubious "ultra-rapid" variety that is completed in 24 hours. But what about follow-up care? I'm referring to a program of drug treatment to prevent relapse. Importantly, with relapse there's always the specter of overdose and further physical deterioration. And Limbaugh will have to fight his addictive inclinations for the rest of his life - that is the nature of the beast. It's encouraging to note that many radio and television personalities, such as Don Imus and Larry Kudlow, are succeeding in their day-by-day recovery efforts.

The drugs taken by Limbaugh - OxyContin, Lorcet and Hydrocone - are terribly dangerous by all accounts. Never mind that they cause a host of emotional side effects including paranoia and mood swings. Now, it's coming to light that at least two of these powerful painkillers are linked to sudden hearing loss. In other words, it's conceivable that Limbaugh's deafness was caused by his own addictive behaviors. If that turns out to be the case, it's not only tragic but speaks to the incredible grip of dependency created by these drugs. On some level Rush Limbaugh, like all substance abusers, has self-destructive tendencies. That's his private business, and his responsibility to explore through counseling. For addicts, arrest is often a good thing since the Court system forces them into essential treatment. Roy Black is a very adept criminal attorney who understands these issues. If Limbaugh is charged with a crime, certainly mandatory drug rehabilitation would be part of the plea bargain. I doubt that Limbaugh would be made to serve any jail time. [quote]

Edited by Rhea, 12 October 2003 - 01:43 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#58 HubcapDave

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 01:35 PM

Cardie, on Oct 12 2003, 11:15 AM, said:

My feeling is that if you make your living spouting one-sided, nasty denunciations of any particular group, and you end up being a member of that group, then I have NO sympathy for you. If Michael Moore were caught selling illegal Saturday night specials or Al Franken belonged to a club that excluded racial minorities or James Carvile was profiting from insider trading on Halliburton stock, I would feel exactly the same way.

Limbaugh consistently bashed people who were addicts, irrespective of the source of their drugs or whether they had them legally. He bashed them for being weak-willed and incapable of making the proper moral choice. That makes him a hypocrite in my book--unless he said that while admitting to addiction himself without first having been caught out at it.

Cardie
Cardie, do you ever actually listen to the man's show?

His views on the subject have been consistent. The "worst" thing he's said is that there is a matter of personal responsibility which is ignored many times in the "addiction is a disease" approach to the problem.

Furthmore, if you look at his statement about his addiction, it is entirely consistent with his philosophy on this matter.

#59 HubcapDave

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 01:47 PM

Quote

I don't read the National Enquirer, now or ever, so I wouldn't know what they alleged.

I wasn't saying you did. That's who the maid told her story to. It is also the only place  had seen any supposed connection to his hearing loss. Not that I read it either, but it was hard to miss in the supermarket checkout.


Last time I check, being investigated and being guilty were still two different things.

Furthermore, the addiction started six years ago, after a failed back surgery, so it hasn't been "the last decade".

For curiousity's sake, I wonder what he's said on the subject in that particular time frame? Nearly all of what I have seen attributed to him is from prior to his actuaL addiction.

Edited to add this:

Interesting article from the American Partisan. There's a particular passage I really liked:

Quote

Given Limbaugh's outstanding analytical mind and sharp wit, it's difficult to believe that he's constantly in a drug induced state. Who is more articulate and funny than Limbaugh in the world of political commentary?

That's something that I have marveled at myself: How did this man manage to maintain such a high level of quality and intelligence in his shows while being addicted? Or under the influence even? If I've been listening to a doped-up man for the last few years, I wonder what a clean and sober Rush is like?

Edited by HubcapDave, 12 October 2003 - 01:57 PM.


#60 Rhea

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 01:52 PM

HubcapDave, on Oct 12 2003, 11:35 AM, said:

Cardie, on Oct 12 2003, 11:15 AM, said:

My feeling is that if you make your living spouting one-sided, nasty denunciations of any particular group, and you end up being a member of that group, then I have NO sympathy for you. If Michael Moore were caught selling illegal Saturday night specials or Al Franken belonged to a club that excluded racial minorities or James Carvile was profiting from insider trading on Halliburton stock, I would feel exactly the same way.

Limbaugh consistently bashed people who were addicts, irrespective of the source of their drugs or whether they had them legally. He bashed them for being weak-willed and incapable of making the proper moral choice. That makes him a hypocrite in my book--unless he said that while admitting to addiction himself without first having been caught out at it.

Cardie
Cardie, do you ever actually listen to the man's show?

His views on the subject have been consistent. The "worst" thing he's said is that there is a matter of personal responsibility which is ignored many times in the "addiction is a disease" approach to the problem.

Furthmore, if you look at his statement about his addiction, it is entirely consistent with his philosophy on this matter.

Quote

"I know every expert in the world will disagree with me, but I don't buy into the disease part of it. The first time you reach for a substance you are making a choice. Every time you go back, you are making a personal choice. I feel very strongly about that.

Rush said it, and I guess he ought to know.  :p So all these years that he's been, by his own admission (at least 6 years), an addict, he was NOT taking personal responsibility for his problem, now was he? And he only finally took responsibility because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. How exactly is that admirable??

Edited by Rhea, 12 October 2003 - 01:54 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH



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