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Florida court orders woman be starved to death.

Florida Teri Schaivo 2003

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#1 Drew

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 03:33 PM

Florida court OKs letting comatose woman die.

Quote

The feeding tube keeping a severely brain-damaged woman alive was removed Wednesday, ending an epic, six-year legal battle between her husband and her parents.
. . .
Schiavo has been in a vegetative state since 1990, when her heart stopped because of doctors said may have been a chemical imbalance. Her parents believe she is capable of learning how to eat and drink on her own.

A state appeals court in Lakeland rejected motions by an attorney for the Schindlers and their legal remedies have been exhausted, their lawyer said Tuesday.

Michael Schiavo says his wife would not have wanted to be kept alive artificially in this way, but his in-laws contend that she wants to live. She left no living will or other written instructions.
Michael Schiavo has refused to divorce his wife, though he's in a long-term relationship with another woman, because he doesn't want guardianship to revert to her parents. He has legally barred them from visiting their daughter.

Quote

Terri's family is also forbidden to have her examined by any physician without pre-approval from the court. Pamela Hennessy, spokeswoman for the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation, called the move "entirely senseless" and described it as the Schiavo legal team's "last attempt at cruelty."
Terri Schiavo is functioning on her own. She only requires a feeding tube.

Quote

If Terri's feeding tube is removed, doctors estimate it will take 10 days to two weeks for her to die of dehydration, starvation or both. There is no medical consensus on how much pain she might suffer during that process.
Her family states that she is responsive. Doctors (ones approved by her husband) claim her eye movements and facial expressions are mere reflex action. One radio report I heard today mentioned that her parents claim that she attempted to get out of bed when she heard about her court-appointed fate.

She has no "living will" stipulating what action should be taken in a situation like this. Her husband simply argues that "she wouldn't have wanted it this way."

The website for the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation is rather interesting. She sure doesn't look comatose, and according to the family,

Quote

Terri receives her food and water by means of a feeding tube. Terri’s other bodily functions are physically stable. Terri smiles, laughs and cries. Terri recognizes voices and responds. At times, she vocalizes sounds, trying in her best way to speak. Terri is not a brain dead vegetable as characterized by her husband and legal guardian, Michael Schiavo nor a houseplant as implied by his attorney.  Terri is not on a respirator or any artificial life support. She is a living human being and needs to be granted an opportunity to recover. Terri has not had any progressive rehabilitation or arousal therapy in more than ten years.
(That last bit is my boldface. I thought it of particular importance.)

Edited by Drew, 15 October 2003 - 04:24 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#2 Rov Judicata

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 03:41 PM

I was just about to post.

I've been following the case for a couple of years. Her odds were always slim, but I hate to see it end this way.

The irony is that if she was a criminal condemned to die, the governor could save her. Here, he's powerless.

:(
St. Louis must be destroyed!

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#3 Drew

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 03:45 PM

The following items are from the family's website. They really make me wonder about the husband's rea$on$:

Quote

•In a malpractice lawsuit, Terri’s husband personally received over $300,000 for his loss of consortium. Terri was awarded $750,000 from this suit and an additional $250,000 from a separate malpractice lawsuit. The money was awarded to Terri for her care and rehabilitation and to be placed in a Medical Trust Fund.  Terri’s husband received his personal award money and Terri’s medical fund money in early 1993. From the date he received the award money in 1993, Michael Schiavo has denied Terri any rehabilitation treatment. Michael Schiavo has confined Terri to a nursing home (currently, Terri is in a Hospice facility) where she is 'maintained.' Her husband has directed that Terri only be sustained in a nursing home which is contrary to the intent of the award money.  Michael Schiavo has on two occasions unsuccessfully attempted to end Terri’s life by instructing her caretakers not to medicate Terri for potentially fatal infections. The first occasion occurred less than nine months after her husband received the malpractice award money.

• Terri has no will. Should she die, her husband will inherit what is left of Terri’s $750,000 medical fund. 

• Since receiving the award money in 1993, her husband has ceased and prohibited any new or aggressive treatment for Terri. He has only maintained Terri at a nursing home (currently, Terri is in a Hospice facility).  He has totally ignored or denied rehabilitation therapy that could possibly assist Terri’s recovery.

• Since 1993, Terri’s husband has consistently and deliberately withheld all medical information and data from Terri’s family. Over the past eight years he has ordered Terri’s caretakers not to reveal any medical or neurological information

• Michael Schiavo will not permit any doctor to examine Terri other than the doctors he selects.

• As Terri’s legal guardian, her husband has used her medical fund money to offset the legal costs when his guardianship of Terri was initially challenged and to pay the current legal costs to have Terri’s life ended.

Edited by Drew, 15 October 2003 - 03:46 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#4 Godeskian

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 03:49 PM

Drew, while hte text you posted is fairly damning, remember that the family is fighting for their daughter,

I would ascribe the worst of motives to anyone who attacked my family, and i damn sure would hit them with everything i could.

Is any of this corroborated by a source who doesn't have an emotional stake in the matter?

#5 Bad Wolf

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 03:54 PM

I also think the title of this thread is highly inflammatory.  The court didn't order her "starved to death" it upheld the husband's legal claim that said she should no longer be kept artificially alive.

I can't tell from the information on this thread (I agree with Gode that the family is at best a biased source) who's right or wrong but I think the claim that the claim that a court ordered someone to be starved to death is deliberately misleading.

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#6 Rov Judicata

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 03:57 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Oct 15 2003, 01:54 PM, said:

I think the claim that the claim that a court ordered someone to be starved to death is deliberately misleading.

Lil
That's exactly what's going on.

The only artificial support this woman is on is a feeding tube.

By ordering that tube to be removed, they're ordering that she be starved to death.

Let me dig up some more links on this story....

EDIT: Here's an article: http://www.chronwatc...ay.asp?aid=4672

Quote

Terri Schiavo collapsed from unknown causes in 1990 and experienced a devastating brain injury.  Michael brought a medical malpractice case in which he promised the jury that he would provide Terri with rehabilitation and care for her for the rest of his life.  The jury in 1993 awarded $1.3 million in damages, approximately $750,000 of which was set aside to pay for her care and rehabilitation.  But once the money was in the bank, Michael refused to provide Terri with any rehab.  Moreover, within months, he had a do-not-resuscitate order placed on her chart.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 15 October 2003 - 03:59 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#7 Drew

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 04:00 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Oct 15 2003, 03:54 PM, said:

I think the claim that the claim that a court ordered someone to be starved to death is deliberately misleading.
Not really. It actually cuts to the heart of the matter. Saying "Court OKs removal of feeding tube" is a slightly sanitized version of what's happening.

As for the title of this thread being "inflammatory," it's my thread, it's my title. You may petition the mods to reword it, but I do not give my permission.  :cool:

Edited by Drew, 15 October 2003 - 04:05 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#8 Drew

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 04:02 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Oct 15 2003, 03:57 PM, said:

EDIT: Here's an article: http://www.chronwatc...ay.asp?aid=4672

Quote

Terri Schiavo collapsed from unknown causes in 1990 and experienced a devastating brain injury.  Michael brought a medical malpractice case in which he promised the jury that he would provide Terri with rehabilitation and care for her for the rest of his life.  The jury in 1993 awarded $1.3 million in damages, approximately $750,000 of which was set aside to pay for her care and rehabilitation.  But once the money was in the bank, Michael refused to provide Terri with any rehab.  Moreover, within months, he had a do-not-resuscitate order placed on her chart.
Well, then he violated the promises made to the court that awarded him damages based on those promises. Pretty damning if you ask me.

EDIT: After reading the editorial Rov linked, I have an even harder time understanding how the court sided with the husband. And this could be ANY of us someday. Slippery slope indeed.

Edited by Drew, 15 October 2003 - 04:20 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#9 Delvo

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 04:16 PM

Drew, on Oct 15 2003, 02:33 PM, said:

Terri Schiavo is functioning on her own. She only requires a feeding tube.
Where in the world did THAT come from?! :wacko::Oo: Even her parents don't say anything that sounds THAT deeply denialistic! Look at the things you quoted yourself! :confused:

#10 GiGi

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 04:18 PM

Yikes!!!

I hope the family can get some help with this.  She does not look like a vegetable to me!
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#11 Drew

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 04:22 PM

Delvo, on Oct 15 2003, 04:16 PM, said:

Drew, on Oct 15 2003, 02:33 PM, said:

Terri Schiavo is functioning on her own. She only requires a feeding tube.
Where in the world did THAT come from?! :wacko::Oo: Even her parents don't say anything that sounds THAT deeply denialistic! Look at the things you quoted yourself! :confused:
What I mean is, she is not hooked up to any sort of life support aside from a feeding tube. And doctors (ones NOT approved by her husband) believe that she could learn to eat on her own if given therapy. Her husband has denied her that therapy. He has instead used the court-awarded money that was intended for her therapy to seek the end of her life.

The husband has been engaged to another woman for more than seven years. They already have a baby and plan to marry as soon as Terri is dead.

This is one of those soap-opera plots too unbelievable to be real.

Edited by Drew, 15 October 2003 - 04:32 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#12 Drew

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 04:38 PM

Oh my:

http://www.cnsnews.c...L20030910c.html

Quote

One particular allegation that was "very disturbing" to [Pamela Hennessy, spokeswoman for the Schindler family] and prompted the request for a criminal investigation was lodged by Carla Sauer Iyer, a registered nurse who cared for Terri from about April of 1995 until August of 1996.

Iyer alleged that Terri's blood sugar levels were normally "very stable due to the uniformity of her diet." While she suspects Schiavo of injecting Terri with regular insulin to drive her into hypoglycemic shock, she acknowledged that she has no proof.

"She noted at least five times when Michael Schiavo would come to visit Terri, close the door to her room and then emerge sometime later and leave," Hennessy related. "On those occasions, Iyer had tested Terri's blood sugar, and the level was so low it wasn't even registering, she would administer dextrose to get Terri...out of danger."

Iyer's affidavit detailed the alleged incidents.

"Terri would be trembling, crying hysterically and would be very pale and have cold sweats. It looked to me like Terri was having a hypoglycemic reaction, so I'd check her blood sugar," Iyer recalled. "The glucometer reading would be so low that it was below the range where it would register an actual number reading."

Iyer and the other caregivers recalled numerous occasions when they would record information in Terri's medical charts or patient logs indicating that she was alert and responsive, speaking to them, laughing at jokes or funny stories, and complying with simple instructions.

Those records, they allege, were deleted from the files and, in some cases, were later seen in trashcans at nursing stations.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#13 Kevin Street

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 04:44 PM

^ Speaking to them??? If that's true, then the court had better reconsider its decision pretty quick.
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#14 Rov Judicata

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 04:47 PM

Hypothetical:

I'm not endorsing violonce of any sort here. Nor am I hoping that anything bad happens.

HOWEVER... what would happen if the husband died? Would the decision default to the family, or would his wishes stand?
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#15 eryn

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 04:53 PM

:blink:

The husband sounds like he really has ulterior motives here...

And dont you think intentionally starving someone to death for 10 to 14 days is just a *tad* inhumane?  :(

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#16 Drew

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 05:02 PM

mystic, on Oct 15 2003, 04:53 PM, said:

And dont you think intentionally starving someone to death for 10 to 14 days is just a *tad* inhumane?  :(
I'd be arrested if I did that to my dog.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#17 Delvo

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 05:11 PM

Drew, on Oct 15 2003, 04:02 PM, said:

I'd be arrested if I did that to my dog.
Same thing if you were to keep a dog in a tortured pseduo-life like hers.

Edited by Delvo, 15 October 2003 - 05:21 PM.


#18 HubcapDave

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 06:34 PM

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Del.

If the parents are to be believed, she has never had the chance to rehabilitated to see if she could regain any of her faculties.

If anyone is keeping her in this state, it is her husband for not trying any therapy.

#19 Cardie

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 06:35 PM

Being given food and hydration is not, imo, prolonging life through artificial means. Everyone has to eat and drink to survive.  So what if the delivery system is different. When my mother was in her last illness and on a ventilator, I had a DNR and allowed the doctors to stop taking any heroic measures, but I specifically forbade the discontinuation of food and hydration. My Mom, who was comatose, eventually rallied to the extent that she could come off the vent, and then she died peacefully when her heart could no longer beat. But I never had to worry about how she might suffer from lack of nutrients.

Many people survive in what Delvo calls "tortured pseudo-life" without being hooked up to anything that can be disconnected. Should we give all of them a lethal injection? Indeed, it would be kinder to do that to Ms. Schiavo than this.

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#20 G1223

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 06:38 PM

Sorry if I was in that state I do not care if there were a Billion Dollars in rulings awaiting me. If the woman is to the point where her doctors are saying her reactions are relaxive and not a sign of being alive then I would want to be let go.  

Then again I would agree that the husband is no saint but oh my god to have been kept alive this long and in that state.

Edited by G1223, 15 October 2003 - 06:39 PM.

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