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Dean apologizes for "Confederate Flag" remark

Elections 2004 Democrats Howard Dean

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#1 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 12:37 PM

http://edition.cnn.c...flag/index.html

Quote

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Democratic presidential hopeful Howard Dean, under fire for saying he wanted to be a candidate for "guys with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks," issued an apology for his remark Thursday.

Arrrrrrrrrg.

I want to like Howard Dean. Really, I do.

I thought the original comment was a bit silly. He could have either stuck by it, or apologized.

But on Tuesday, he was criticized for the remark in a presidential debate, and didn't apologize.

Today, he did.

Either strategy is fine with me, and there are legitimate arguments on both sides. But *PICK ONE*.

I also like the take of John Edwards:

Quote

Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina said, "The last thing we need in the South is somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need to do." He told Dean the remarks were condescending. "The people I grew up with, the vast majority of them, they don't drive around with Confederate flags on pickup trucks," Edwards said.

That's a good point. If Dean's way of getting the poor white vote is to praise the Confederate flag,  I have to wonder how in touch this guy is.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

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#2 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 12:40 PM

score another point for the rapidly sinking jaggarnaut that is the democratic party.

If this is their idea of establishing some kind of grass roots base it's no WONDER they're in the shape they're in.

:rolleyes:
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#3 MuseZack

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 01:22 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Nov 6 2003, 05:40 PM, said:

score another point for the rapidly sinking jaggarnaut that is the democratic party.

If this is their idea of establishing some kind of grass roots base it's no WONDER they're in the shape they're in.

:rolleyes:
Yeah, Lil.  But the Simpsons still has it right.  In the end, do you want to vote for Joe Quimby or Sideshow Bob?
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We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#4 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 01:34 PM

LOL!

Note taken...;)
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#5 Drew

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 01:38 PM

Let's play a game called "Who will Howard Dean pander to next week?" (Hint: Metrosexuals was last week.)
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#6 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 01:41 PM

Metrosexual???

That's one I'm not familiar with...
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#7 Drew

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 01:48 PM

Dean declares himself a "metrosexual."
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#8 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 01:52 PM

Well my assessment of the term itself aside (it's silly), could the man be any LESS sincere?

I mean I know we live in jaded times but can't he even TRY to come accross as sincere?

:wacko:
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#9 Drew

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 01:53 PM

"Just What is Howard Dean's Southern Strategy?"

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More interesting was Dean's comment that he wanted to bring back to the Democratic Party all those Southern men who have Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. Hoo-boy. If Bush said that, the editorial cartoonists would have him in white sheets and pointy hats for the rest of his term.

. . .

Can a fellow win with the Confederate Metrosexual vote? Time will tell.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#10 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 01:57 PM

^  Heh I like it Drew…

Party of Lincoln vs. Dean and his Confederate Flag Wavers….

Oh yes this has potential as a campaign commercial.  ;)  

This does show how desperate the Democrats are to grasp at every straw they can in order to gain a few votes.
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#11 MuseZack

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:14 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Nov 6 2003, 06:57 PM, said:

^  Heh I like it Drew…

Party of Lincoln vs. Dean and his Confederate Flag Wavers….

Oh yes this has potential as a campaign commercial.  ;) 

This does show how desperate the Democrats are to grasp at every straw they can in order to gain a few votes.
Oh, please.  The party of Lincoln?  More like the party that's appealed to Southern white bigotry and worked to repress the black vote in every election since 1968.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#12 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:18 PM

:lol:

He shoots and scores!!!

:angel:
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#13 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:22 PM

While I think Zack overstates the case, going after the black vote simply isn't a winning strategy for the GOP.

http://www.gomemphis...2405656,00.html

Quote

Republicans gained among almost every major voting bloc except black voters. They gained by 8 percentage points nationally among Hispanics, though they still trail Democrats 36-22 percent nationally. Their biggest improvements among Hispanics came in Florida, where they now lead 32-30 percent, and in California and Texas, although they still trail the Democrats.

Republicans also improved their standing among both genders, all income groups, all education levels and among Roman Catholics, Protestants and Jews. Pew didn't poll Muslims because they are too small a percentage of the country to measure reliably, Kohut said.

If the Republican Party pandered to the black vote, it would no longer be the Republican Party in any meaningful sense. It's hard to appeal to somebody when you tell them, "You're not going to get preferential treatment in college admissions anymore.". It's far better to stick with the groups that are winnable. Despite all the talk about the critical black vote, the GOP can and has been winning without it.

Quote

Republicans gained everywhere. Among 15 swing states that often go either way in presidential votes, Republicans now lead in partisan identification in Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Tennessee, Florida and Wisconsin.

They gained but still trail in Arkansas, West Virginia, New Mexico, Louisiana, Missouri and Oregon. They are now tied with Democrats in Pennsylvania. They lost ground in two swing states, New Hampshire and Ohio.

What the GOP is doing is working.

When, however, Al Sharpton raises doubt over whether the Democratic party is the place for blacks, I wonder if the left can continue to take the black vote for granted.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 06 November 2003 - 02:23 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#14 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:32 PM

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Zack: Oh, please. The party of Lincoln?

In case I lost my basic understanding of say pre Civil War History. Lincoln was one of the basic founding elements of the Republican Party and instrumental in the growth of that party right? ;)

Quote

Zack: More like the party that's appealed to Southern white bigotry

Funny what does the Confederate flag Dean wants guy’s driving pickups with stuck on represent?  I guess Dean likes to appeal to appeal to a symbol of Southern White Bigotry if it can get him a few votes.    

On the black votes issue I agree with Rov.  Indeed if you want to assert bigotry is a integral part of the Republican party then I have one for you to explain.  How do you explain the increases in Hispanic voters supporting the Republican Party?  The Republican Party tend to keep gaining a rising percentage of votes in one of the fastest growing minority population in the country. The Democrats meanwhile had to claw just to hold onto their votes and apparently appeal to symbols of bigotry too
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#15 MuseZack

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:32 PM

I'm not talking about pandering to the black vote.  I'm talking about pandering to white racism in the South (see any citation on Nixon's Southern Strategy)-- either overtly or through the artful manipulation of symbols-- and taking measures to keep black people away from the polls in the South, such as sending poll watchers to harrass and challenge voters in black districts (this happened just this Tuesday in Mississippi) and purging the voter rolls in Florida-- in the process illegally denying thousands of mostly black voters the right to vote in the 2000 Presidential election.

There's a reason why people in the African American community compare voting for a Republican to a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders, and it's not just about fear of losing Affirmative Action...
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#16 Kimmer

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:37 PM

MuseZack, on Nov 6 2003, 11:14 AM, said:

CJ AEGIS, on Nov 6 2003, 06:57 PM, said:

^  Heh I like it Drew…

Party of Lincoln vs. Dean and his Confederate Flag Wavers….

Oh yes this has potential as a campaign commercial.  ;) 

This does show how desperate the Democrats are to grasp at every straw they can in order to gain a few votes.
Oh, please.  The party of Lincoln?  More like the party that's appealed to Southern white bigotry and worked to repress the black vote in every election since 1968.
And appealing to poor white voters with confederate flags (hmmm ... wasn't that about bigotry and hatred of blacks?) is different how? And how is his stand good?

I did find this comment most frightening:

Quote

Dean was asked by Hemmer why he didn't apologize during the Boston forum, in which young people asked Democratic candidates an array of questions.

"I tend to be somebody, who under pressure, tends to fight back," Dean said.

"When they come after me I tend not to give an inch. I had the opportunity to think about it most of the night and I concluded that I was wrong."

So even when he is wrong, mr dean "fights back" and doesn't "give an inch". Oh yeah, this is a leader I can really get behind. NOT!

#17 G1223

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:38 PM

Well at lweast he has shown the back bone of  an appeaser. He really bent himself like a pretzel.
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#18 Drew

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:41 PM

Rather, he strikes me as a "say anything" kinda guy, whether he really believes what he's saying or not. It's like someone's programmed a Candidate-bot, and "Stump v1.2" is working perfectly. (Those aren't bugs . . . those are "features.")
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#19 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:44 PM

Drew, on Nov 6 2003, 11:41 AM, said:

Rather, he strikes me as a "say anything" kinda guy, whether he really believes what he's saying or not. It's like someone's programmed a Candidate-bot, and "Stump v1.2" is working perfectly. (Those aren't bugs . . . those are "features.")
At the risk of bringing the sky down on the forum, I have to say that this is how he strikes me too.  Insincere, lacking the courage of any convictions, willing to say what needs to be said to whomever he happens to be talking to, never mind that it contradicts anything he may have said before or whether it reflects his real feelings.

Lil
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#20 G1223

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:49 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Nov 6 2003, 07:44 PM, said:

Drew, on Nov 6 2003, 11:41 AM, said:

Rather, he strikes me as a "say anything" kinda guy, whether he really believes what he's saying or not. It's like someone's programmed a Candidate-bot, and "Stump v1.2" is working perfectly. (Those aren't bugs . . . those are "features.")
At the risk of bringing the sky down on the forum, I have to say that this is how he strikes me too.  Insincere, lacking the courage of any convictions, willing to say what needs to be said to whomever he happens to be talking to, never mind that it contradicts anything he may have said before or whether it reflects his real feelings.

Lil
You mean like Clinton of 92?
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.



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