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Gore makes speech on Freedom and Security

Al Gore Speech 2003

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#1 Jid

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 02:31 PM

For your reading pleasure (but it's quite long)

http://www.moveon.or...re/speech2.html

An interesting quote that's just the tip of the iceburg.

Quote

So it seems to me that the logical place to start the discussion is with an accounting of exactly what has happened to civil liberties and security since the vicious attacks against America of September 11, 2001 and its important to note at the outset that the Administration and the Congress have brought about many beneficial and needed improvements to make law enforcement and intelligence community efforts more effective against potential terrorists.

But a lot of other changes have taken place that a lot of people don't know about and that come as unwelcome surprises. For example, for the first time in our history, American citizens have been seized by the executive branch of government and put in prison without being charged with a crime, without having the right to a trial, without being able to see a lawyer, and without even being able to contact their families.

President Bush is claiming the unilateral right to do that to any American citizen he believes is an 'enemy combatant.' Those are the magic words. If the President alone decides that those two words accurately describe someone, then that person can be immediately locked up and held incommunicado for as long as the President wants, with no court having the right to determine whether the facts actually justify his imprisonment.

I'll try and weigh in with some of my own thoughts later...

Edited by Jid, 16 November 2003 - 02:33 PM.

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#2 Kevin Street

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 03:34 PM

Thanks for the link, Jid. :)
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#3 Delvo

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 04:28 PM

I would have said the same things myself a while ago, but now... to see it said by Gore?

GORE?!

This is GORE we're talking about here. This man is not physically capable of ever saying ANYTHING true.

I have GOT to rethink my stance on this aspect of the Bush Administration. :suspect:

Edited by Delvo, 18 November 2003 - 02:00 AM.


#4 Drew

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 06:48 PM

Delvo, on Nov 16 2003, 03:28 PM, said:

This man is physically capable of ever saying ANYTHING true.
Ummm. That's quite a charge!  :angel:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#5 Drew

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 06:49 PM

This is Gore's trial balloon.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#6 LittleRedhead

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 07:56 PM

Drew, on Nov 16 2003, 03:49 PM, said:

This is Gore's trial balloon.
You may be right Drew.  What with the Dems, except for Dean, struggling for support. Gore could see this as a chance to jump in and appear to be the savior of the Dems if he sees he's getting enough groundswell and if Dean falters.
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#7 Rov Judicata

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 11:00 AM

I agree with Gore on several key points.

The problem I see is that he's criticizing Bush for his civil liberties failures, yet the Clinton-Gore administration had its share of extremely scary policies and proposals (Anybody remember Carnivore?).
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#8 G1223

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 11:16 AM

Or the name Janet Reno who tried to violate the law concerning charging children as adults. AG are the pit bulls of administrations why is ashcroft demonized becasue we do not have Reno next to him to compare and see that they both deserve praise and rebuking.
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#9 Norville

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 12:05 AM

Re: scariness in the Clinton years -- anyone remember the photo of the, erm, "jackbooted thug" hunting for Elian Gonzales, sticking his gun in someone's face? That photo doesn't seem to get reproduced much these days, and I wonder why...
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#10 Delvo

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 12:27 AM

Because when the truth came out, the picture turned out to be nothing special. He wasn't threatening anyone, he was just being responsible with his weapon, holding it like it's supposed to be held, while someone else was there. It wasn't even pointing at a person, but right past him at the wall.

(Some would also point out that his finger was entirely outside the trigger cage and plainly visible in that safety position... but that's just to avoid accidental discharge, and it doesn't prove a lack of intention to shoot since it wouldn't take much to get it back on the trigger... but that position can also be taken as a way to communicate non-aggression... but only if the person looking knows the signs to watch for...)

#11 QueenTiye

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 12:28 AM

Delvo, on Nov 16 2003, 04:28 PM, said:

I would have said the same things myself a while ago, but now... to see it said by Gore?

GORE?!

This is GORE we're talking about here. This man is physically capable of ever saying ANYTHING true.

I have GOT to rethink my stance on this aspect of the Bush Administration. :suspect:
:confused:  this is EASILY your most confusing post EVER....

Assuming that you meant to accuse Gore of being INcapable of saying anything true....

what does this have to do with the Bush admin?

QT

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#12 Delvo

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 02:11 AM

QueenTiye, on Nov 17 2003, 11:28 PM, said:

Assuming that you meant to accuse Gore of being INcapable of saying anything true....
I did. It's fixed now. Gewd gawd, missing words are a bad enough species of typo, but when it's the negative that reverses the whole meaning of the sentence, that's really off-pissing. Grrrrr...

Quote

what does this have to do with the Bush admin?
That's who he was criticizing, and it's who I would have criticized in some of the same ways myself, which means Gore and I would be saying the same stuff as each other... and something's got to be wrong with THAT picture... :D

#13 QueenTiye

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 12:10 PM

Delvo, on Nov 18 2003, 02:11 AM, said:

QueenTiye, on Nov 17 2003, 11:28 PM, said:

Assuming that you meant to accuse Gore of being INcapable of saying anything true....
I did. It's fixed now. Gewd gawd, missing words are a bad enough species of typo, but when it's the negative that reverses the whole meaning of the sentence, that's really off-pissing. Grrrrr...
Off-pissing? :lol:

Quote

Quote

what does this have to do with the Bush admin?
That's who he was criticizing, and it's who I would have criticized in some of the same ways myself, which means Gore and I would be saying the same stuff as each other... and something's got to be wrong with THAT picture... :D

AAAHHHH.... May have to redefine your whole self-concept! ;)

QT

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#14 G1223

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 12:24 PM

I voted as I did becasue of Gore position on things.

I voted becasue I feared that the Kyoto Treaty would force the closing of factoires and other industries to come into complince. But had no provisions for closing the factories of China or Malyasiawho have smog alerts that rival LA at the hight of the smog filled days.

I voted because the man could not admit to going to a fundraiser at the buddist templeyet his security detail logs this in as a fundraiser. The people at the reception said it was a fundraiserthe only person who said it wasn't was Al Gore.

He had the Charisma of a wood post.

BTW I voted for Bush
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#15 Kosh

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 04:10 PM

Delvo, on Nov 16 2003, 05:28 PM, said:

I would have said the same things myself a while ago, but now... to see it said by Gore?

GORE?!

This is GORE we're talking about here. This man is not physically capable of ever saying ANYTHING true.

I have GOT to rethink my stance on this aspect of the Bush Administration. :suspect:
Don't worry so much about who says what, just think for yourself. Al said something intelligent, it happens. He's now catching up with you. :D
Can't Touch This!!

#16 QueenTiye

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 04:13 PM

{{{{{{{{{{{{ Kosh }}}}}}}}}}}}}}

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#17 Rhea

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 07:03 PM

Delvo, on Nov 16 2003, 02:28 PM, said:

This is GORE we're talking about here. This man is not physically capable of ever saying ANYTHING true.
Speaking of sweeping generalizations, and here we are again....  ;)
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#18 Delvo

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 12:46 AM

Rhea, on Nov 18 2003, 06:03 PM, said:

Delvo, on Nov 16 2003, 02:28 PM, said:

This is GORE we're talking about here. This man is not physically capable of ever saying ANYTHING true.
Speaking of sweeping generalizations, and here we are again....  ;)
That was about ONE man!



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