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Baghdad Burning

Iraq Baghdad War

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#1 Shaun

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 07:29 PM

Difficult Days...

They've been bombing houses in Tikrit and other areas! Unbelievable… I'm so angry it makes me want to break something!!!! What the hell is going on?! What do the Americans think Tikrit is?! Some sort of city of monsters or beasts? The people there are simple people. Most of them make a living off of their land and their livestock- the rest are teachers, professors and merchants- they have lives and families… Tikrit is nothing more than a bunch of low buildings and a palace that was as inaccessible to the Tikritis as it was to everyone else!

People in Al Awja suffered as much as anyone, if not more- they weren't all related to Saddam and even those who were, suffered under his direct relatives. Granted, his bodyguards and others close to him were from Tikrit, but they aren't currently in Tikrit- the majority have struck up deals with the CPA and are bargaining for their safety and the safety of their families with information. The people currently in Tikrit are just ordinary people whose homes and children are as precious to them as American homes and children are precious to Americans! This is contemptible and everyone thinks so- Sunnis and Shi'a alike are shaking their heads incredulously.

And NO- I'm not Tikriti- I'm not even from the 'triangle'- but I know simple, decent people who ARE from there and just the thought that this is being done is so outrageous it makes me want to scream. How can that ass of a president say things are getting better in Iraq when his troops have stooped to destroying homes?! Is that a sign that things are getting better? When you destroy someone's home and detain their family, why would they want to go on with life? Why wouldn't they want to lob a bomb at some 19-year-old soldier from Missouri?!

The troops were pushing women and children shivering with fear out the door in the middle of the night. What do you think these children think to themselves- being dragged out of their homes, having their possessions and houses damaged and burned?! Who do you think is creating the 'terrorists'?!! Do you think these kids think to themselves, "Oh well- we learned our lesson. That's that. Yay troops!" It's like a vicious, moronic circle and people are outraged…

Continued at http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
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#2 Lover of Purple

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 07:47 PM

Never mind.

#3 G1223

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 08:28 PM

Yeah LOP  got to agree.
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#4 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 08:31 PM

Ditto.
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#5 ZipperInt

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 09:36 PM

**Sni-**

Oh, bother,  ditto again.
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#6 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 09:47 PM

*Shakes his head*

I'm not even gonna...Ditto for me as well.
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#7 the 'Hawk

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 10:03 PM

It's always interesting to get another perspective. Thanks, Shaun!

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#8 G1223

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 10:07 PM

That was more thanI could say about this...ah Rant.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

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#9 the 'Hawk

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 10:09 PM

^ Shaun simply posted the information, he didn't write it. As a result, I pay him the respect due to him for bringing it to my attention. It's all about respect. And there *is* an alternate viewpoint very clearly written right there. I appreciate that. I may disagree. But I appreciate it.

:cool:
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#10 Norville

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 12:10 AM

I'm not going to comment much more than this -- why's it so evil that an Iraqi may indeed feel that way and post about it online? (G, you might note that Shaun didn't write it. It was an Iraqi's blog.)
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#11 G1223

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 12:23 AM

So we are posting propagana? Why I thought this was about topics of disscussion not posting the propaganda of terrorists?
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
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TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

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#12 Jid

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 12:38 AM

^You're levelling some Awfully harsh accusations there G.

This person, by the looks of things, lives in Iraq.

This does not make them a terrorist any more than having the occasional beer makes me a posterboy for Alcoholics Anonymous.  I'd thank you to remember that.

Please try and keep the sweeping generalizations out of this.

You wish to believe it's propaganda, I won't stop you.

One man's propaganda is another man's news, don't forget.

-Jid, who takes everything he sees with a grain of salt.  Especially News Reports.
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#13 Josh

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 01:06 AM

I think it's good to have an alternate viewpoint every once in a while, especially from someone who is in the neck of things (assuming none of this is a made-up RP blog. I've seen those around).
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#14 silverwind

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 01:10 AM

Shaun--Thanks for posting this.  Its good to see another perspective on Iraq.

Jid--Excellent points.

G--Sadly, the media and our government are very good at dehumanizing the people of Iraq and surrounding countries.  To me, automatic decrying of things like this blog as "propaganda of terrorists" shows just how successful they've been at doing so.  But I can't share with you (or anyone else) the thing that keeps me from believing the government and falling victim to their desensitizing.  I can't give anyone a half-Iranian half-sister.  I can't give anyone nephews who could be placed on the streets of Baghdad and not look amiss.  I can't give anyone else the gut-wrenching feeling of "These are people too.  This could be your own family."

I wish I could, though.  Maybe if people didn't "know", but felt that the people in this region are people too, then we wouldn't be over there dropping bombs on them. :(
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#15 Kevin Street

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 01:50 AM

Quote

Jid:
Please try and keep the sweeping generalizations out of this.

Thank you, Jid. :)

Quote

Josh:
assuming none of this is a made-up RP blog. I've seen those around

That's quite possible. I've heard of both pro and anti war blogs being faked, but not knowing the truth one way or another, I think I'll give this one the benefit of the doubt. (But it should probably be taken with a large grain of salt. Even if the blogger is really an Iraqi, he's probably too close to the situation to be objective.) I disagree with the author's conclusion, though. The bombings are bad, but action of some kind had to be taken, since the "status quo" is clearly unacceptable.

Apparently this is part of something called Operation Ivy Cyclone II. Here's a link:

U.S. destroying homes of suspected guerrillas: NEW TACTIC IN IRAQ SIMILAR TO ISRAEL'S IN GAZA, WEST BANK

I don't know what to think. Destroying the homes of civilians is pretty harsh, but the continual murder of US servicemen is worse. Something has to be done to establish order and squash these guerillas, and this strategy seems to be what the experts think will work. I hope they're right.
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#16 G1223

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 01:58 AM

Well add in the news story i heard this evening from CNN that was a recruiting tape showing various attacks against americans with religous chants added to it leads me to think this is propaganda.  The distroying the homes of the terrorists may be extream but it gets a message across.

It beats the level of response the Iraqies would get from the Russians. You could ask the Chechians about that but they are usually shell shocked or too afraid to talk.  You remember the Russians those folks we were suppose to secure the support of before starting this war.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#17 tennyson

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 08:04 AM

Isn't the thread title a bit of a misnomer since it deals with Tikrit?
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#18 Lea

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 09:05 AM

G1223, on Nov 20 2003, 08:58 AM, said:

The distroying the homes of the terrorists ...
How do you know these are homes terrorists and not just peaceful civilians by mistake?

May I remind that people of Iraq were not walking around world blowing things up in foreign countries before the war. The whole war there is US preventive attack.

(Regardless to is it Iraq or whatever other country - preventive means attacking one who has not done this, what's for one is attacked.)

US troops are foreign army in Iraq. So regardless to their motives or dream of leadership, Iraqies who attack US troops, are actually attacking foreign army which has intruded to their homeland. Traditionally that thing is called freedom-fighting not terrorism.

Now, blowing up buildings, attacking Red Cross, etc. - that's terrorism. And it looks like now foreign terrorist have came to Iraq to fight against US and Iraqi civilians are victims of that.

I suppose everybody have noticed that attacks against US troops (and not only) have became more and more succesful and stronger. If these resources had been there before, these would have been used before. Saddam's soldiers hadn't let themselves to be just slaughtered, if this country would have had any military power or ability to fight back. Looks like current biggest problem in Iraq are foreign terrorists, who use the chaos, created by US to fight against US.

G1223, on Nov 20 2003, 08:58 AM, said:

The distroying the homes of the terrorists may be extream but it gets a message across.
What if the message is, that yes, and they follow the example - destroy your home to get a message across?

It's down-going spiral and I haven't seen US doing anything what could stop it - only speeding and dragging more countries in. :(

If you set one example of violent act, there's always ten more, who will take the example and will commit ten acts of violence, just because of the first one excused that the violence per se can be accepted behaviour.

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#19 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 03:38 PM

I can't help it...I have to respond here.

Quote

How do you know these are homes terrorists and not just peaceful civilians by mistake?

And just WHERE do you think these terrorists are hiding...after they've attacked and killed US troops? What? You honestly think their going to set up camp and announce to the US troops "HERE WE ARE!" No, of course their not. Their going to hide in citizens homes. Some citizens, I'll grant you, might not have a choice and are forced to house them. Others, OTOH, shelter them WILLINGLY. There's no way of knowing.

What people have to remember here is that: THIS IS A WAR. People die in war.

These terrorist who are attacking the US troops LEARNED the tactic of hiding in civilian areas from Saddam himself. When Saddam used his mobile Scuds...after they completed their mission he would hide them in civilian areas...Knowing that the US wouldn't bomb those areas...And, at that time, he was right.

Well, big news here people. After 9-11...the kiddie gloves came off.

Quote

US troops are foreign army in Iraq. So regardless to their motives or dream of leadership, Iraqies who attack US troops, are actually attacking foreign army which has intruded to their homeland. Traditionally that thing is called freedom-fighting not terrorism.

I'm sure Hitler used the same logic...His troups weren't terrorists, NO, they were freedom fighters. :sarcasm:
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#20 silverwind

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 03:51 PM

Quote

Well, big news here people. After 9-11...the kiddie gloves came off.

Yes, because we didn't want to get them dirty with the blood of civilians.  

Quote

THIS IS A WAR. People die in war.

Oh!  That explains it all so nice and neatly!  Its WAR, so basic human decency is null and void.

I feel so much better now.
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