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Some Good Things I Got From Andromeda Or why it was all worth it.

#1 User is offline   Mary Rose 

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Posted 01 February 2004 - 05:06 PM

Andromeda crashed and burned. We know this. It hurts and angers us and many of us wish we had never gotten involved.

I thought about that and about whether I felt that way or not. I finally decided I didn't. Sure it hurts and angers me to see what KS and Tribune have done to this show. But I wouldn't trade my getting involved with the fandom for anything. Because what I got was worth the pain that I feel now.

Here are some things I got.

1. A whole new bunch of friends. You guys are great and if I hadn't gone online searching for things about 'Drom I'd have never found Slipstream and this wonderful bunch of people. That board was worthwhile, despite how it ended, just like 'Drom was worthwhile.

2. Lisa Ryder. I had never heard of her before. I came to 'Drom because of Kevin and Keith. I discovered this incredible actresss who played this incredible character who quickly captured my heart. :love: :inlove: BEKA ROCKS!!!!

3. Forever Knight. So because of my Lisa fangirlishness I had to learn everything I could about her and I learned about this show that she'd done before. I had to check it out. And although Tracy Vetter is the best and my favorite, I was quickly captured by the other characters as well. Except LaCroix. I still can't stand him. No, really, I hate him. Honest, I do. :hehe:

So, to say I regret my involvement would be like saying I regret having pets. You know you're gonna outlive them and that hurts like hell. But would you really go the rest of your life without them?
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#2 User is offline   Bad Wolf 

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Posted 01 February 2004 - 05:51 PM

In no real order:

I got to be a part of Slipstream in all it's up and downy times. I got to learn a bit about how a show is made. I got to become a bit acquainted with Keith Hamilton Cobb. I got to be on an Andromeda fan panel at Gallifrey. I got to be someone that Ash and Zack have called on the phone. I got to become friends with Ash and Zack. I got to fight with Robert Hewitt Wolfe about Music of a Distant Drum. I got to watch Ash and Robert in action. I got to meet Ethlie Ann Vare. I got to be friends with Jill Sherwin. I got to be a part of an amazing online community that didn't let itself be destroyed by the egos of others. I remain part of an absolutely amazing online community. I got Firefly, which I'd never have given a shot without you guys. I got Babylon 5 which I'd never have given a shot without you guys. I got interested in writing fiction. I got to meet the entire cast of Andromeda and watch it being made. I got to meet Bill Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, Nichelle Nichols, George Takei, Walter Koenig, Barbara Luna and a host of other people involved with TOS. I get to be a part of the BAZackAshers.

No matter how bad the show is now and eventually gets I am again at a place where I can watch and deeply appreciate it from the time it was good and you know what? That's a good hell of a lot better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

Lil

This post has been edited by Una Salus Lillius: 01 February 2004 - 05:52 PM

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#3 User is offline   Nick 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 12:08 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Feb 1 2004, 05:49 PM, said:

That's a good hell of a lot better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

Lil

Well said! :p

-Nick

#4 User is offline   Bad Wolf 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 12:18 AM

{{{{{{{{{{{{Nick}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

:cool:
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#5 User is offline   shalimar 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 09:56 AM

if you are talking about the fourth season than i don't know what you are talking about because i hadn't had the chance to see it. so please tell me what made you feel so bad about the show. i really like this show specially because i really like sci fi and because it's a really good show

write soon shalimar.

#6 User is offline   Bad Wolf 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 11:46 AM

It's a long story shalimar. And unless you've seen S4 it's kinda hard to explain. I am not awake enough at the moment to get into it in detail but maybe I will later. But long story short: Great potential, never fully realized even at the best of times but still quite satisfying until tptb deliberately dumbed it down to make it appeal to some imaginary audience they never even captured. The end result being great potential turned into a caricature.

Lil
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#7 User is offline   the 'Hawk 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 12:55 PM

I wanted to post in this thread earlier, but I didn't think I could do justice with my remarks before, so I relented until now. Partly because I've told this story before and wanted to do it right, and partly because I'm self-competitive and need to improve with each subsequent re-telling or I feel like I'm slipping. ;)

In October of 2000, when Drom was just brand new, I was a very different person. After "Star Trek: Generations", I had turned away from science-fiction. I lost faith in the Trek in 1997, around when I lost faith in everything else. I had a girlfriend at the time, the first girl I ever really loved. And October was when I found out (while away at school) that she'd been cheating on me. I didn't know quite how to handle it-- in fact, I don't even remember the handling. The first thing I remember, in March of 2001, was hearing Dylan Hunt give that talk to Rev in "Devil Take the Hindmost", about staring right into the heart of the abyss.... and blinking.

Other episodes, with their fanciful, referential, poignant titles, came to play upon my mind as readily as their titles did. Angel Dark, Demon Bright. Music of a Different Drum. Una Salus Victus. The Lone And Level Sands. Banks of the Lethe. All Too Human. The Mathematics Of Tears. It Makes A Lovely Light. Its Hour Come 'Round At Last.

Dylan came to embody something bigger than even the admittedly monolithic Jean-Luc Picard ever could: he became a metaphor for my survivor's instinct, for my desire to be at the centre of the wheel again. Dylan had seen his whole world vanish in the blink of an eye, with the death of his best friend and everything else he had ever known. I knew that feeling all too well. "Nothing worth doing is easy." "All that matters in life is that we try." "Una salus victus, Tyr. It's not about being invincible. It's about being ready-- for anything." These weren't just words spoken on my television. They became rallying cries, from my soul, to hold the line.

That was how it began. I needed to tell someone what Dylan meant to me. I found those people, online, at the Andromeda Message Board. One of them was my now-ex-girlfriend. She showed me the sort of life I could have for myself if only I could set aside the angst, the grief, the rage, the depression, that came with being wounded, that came with healing and becoming the sort of survivor Dylan was.

But then, inexplicably (or rather, all too explicably), Dylan began to change and draw away from what I needed him to be. Oh, sure, Beka and Tyr and Harper and Rommie and Trance and especially Rev were all just as important in my mind, but there was a distinction that I was beginning to note. Before, I paid attention to Dylan because he was the centre of the wheel. I paid attention to him because he was the sort of man --to face any challenge dauntlessly, and endure-- that I aspired to become. Then all of a sudden, his challenges got pitifully easier. He became smug. And suddenly the centre of the wheel was a hub grounding out. Suddenly, the man I wanted to become was the man I had always been afraid of becoming.

And so I turned away. But not before I had built up a solid core of anywhere between fifty to a hundred people to whom I had given some inspiration, a lot of grief, and a few notable catchphrases, while posting under the username Nox.

You know, it's funny-- the history of our community here so closely patterns that of the Commonwealth itself. We had our glory period. We had our Betrayal, and our Fall. Fortunately, thanks to Rov, the Long Night was a couple days at most. But we've restored our fellowship, our Commonwealth, and proven that hope, indeed, does live again. (At least it has for the past year or so.)

And I look at how I've changed, from before Andromeda to now. I've been inspired by solid storytelling, characters who I wanted to be (and, in at least one example, be with--- mmmmmm, Beka....), a universe in which I could simply lay back and count the stars overhead, name them one by one, and call them my own. And I've learned so much.

I've learned that there is nothing more valuable than the frigate of imagination. She's a fast ship, that can take you anywhere, as long as you're willing to be taken for the ride. But having the map of such a brilliant backdrop as Drom had sure helps. The story that went into the story --things we saw at All Systems University, refs and nods and clues, things that left us guessing, hoping, wondering, marvelling-- are the kinds of things that fuel that vessel's engines in a way that no simpleton tales of sexual prowess and shooting things dead could ever do.

I've learned that it's one thing to love a show, another thing to love a show for its concept, and quite another thing to see in a chatroom or read on a message board online from the patient and wonderful writers *of* that show, the inventors of that concept themselves, just what they think, what they have to say. I came into this with men like Dylan Hunt, Seamus Harper, and Rev Bem as the objects of my fanboyishness. I'll come out of it seeing them as mere Mary Sues compared to the men behind them: Robert Hewitt Wolfe, Ash Miller and Zack Stentz. Interacting with the three of you gentlemen online has been a privilege and an honour I won't soon forget.

I've learned that few things in this world are quite as valuable as a concept, be it a book, a film, a television show, a stage production, whatever-- as such a thing that both gives you entertainment *and* pause to reflect on your own self. It's one thing to simply enjoy the show. It's quite another to be thinking about it, four years later, and how it's changed your way of thinking about how you tell a story, how you conduct yourself personally, or how you think about others. That's not just entertainment values--- that builds values. Really, the greatest praise I have for the first season of this show is because it reinforced my way of thinking, and served as a constant reminder to me, to hold the line until the light.

Do I still fancy myself something of a Dylan Hunt? Not anymore-- he's a pervy, smarmy bastard who I would sooner destroy than become. (No points for guessing the subtle Nietzsche ref there.)

But the ideals, the changes I've seen in myself, as a member of this and other fan communities, as a one-time boyfriend, as a friend, as a writer, as a fanboy, as a human being-- all of the many changes, all of the parts of myself I don't know if I would've become without this show.

Yeah, it's a desperate historical-inevitability style reduction to say "cheating girlfriend, Drom, Drom boards, new girlfriend that broke up with me, man I am today". Yeah, I could give you a more comprehensive analysis than that. But this thread isn't about "good things I got in the past four years". It's good things I got from Andromeda. So, you'll forgive me if I get a little poetic and simplistic all at once.

There's really nothing left to say. Except "thanks" to those who made the show in its original form possible. Thanks, for contributing to who I am today.

I don't know where I'd be without Andromeda. I suppose I never will. But I'm glad I won't. I kinda like who I am. This is the first time in my twenty-three years that I can say that. And if Andromeda contributed that to my life, then all of it --even the bad parts-- had a purpose. And I'm glad I was a part of it.

(Since I am, you know, the centre of the wheel....) ;)

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#8 User is offline   Bad Wolf 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 01:00 PM

*Lil grins with pride*

That's my boy!

:love:
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#9 User is offline   Drew 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 01:26 PM

Without wanting to cheapen your sentiments, are you comparing Rov to Dylan Hunt? :blink:
It's a shame Ex Isle eventually became worse than the SlipstreamBBS. But the revolution always eats its own.

#10 User is offline   the 'Hawk 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 01:59 PM

^ If anything, Rov is the Vedran Empress. :lol:

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#11 User is offline   Anakam 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 02:23 PM

the 'Hawk, on Feb 2 2004, 06:57 PM, said:

^ If anything, Rov is the Vedran Empress. :lol:

:cool:

*brain explodes*

*Rovvy Horror flashback*

I have GOT to stop coming here between work shifts. :lol: :wacko: :Oo:
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#12 User is offline   KRAD 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 04:11 PM

You know, I was going to say, "well, I got my first hardcover novel out of it," which would've been shallow and facetious (although I am very happy about that, don't get me wrong), but then 'Hawk went and made that touching, meaningful post, so I'm not gonna say that.

;)
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#13 User is offline   Rhea 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 05:37 PM

Why it was all worth it:

ExIsle
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Robert, Ethlie, Zack, Ash, Jill
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#14 User is offline   ArmourMe 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 05:41 PM

*hugs the 'Hawk a goodly long time*

#15 User is offline   ArmourMe 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 05:55 PM

Of the many things I've gotten from Andromeda (yous people, the honor of interacting with such sharp, friendly and most importantlyhonorable people as Zack, Ash and Robert, a story that makes me laugh, cry, dream and imagine) one of the most important is this:

My pain belongs to the divine
It is like air
It is like water

I'm sure it is borrowed from some meditation here on this planet :D But that mantra has helped me through some terrible times. It spoke to me BECAUSE of the story it came from - that scene between Rev and Harper - speaks to me so personally. I know what it is like to have a whole lifetime of nightmares knocking around in my head and no way let them out.

I've used that mantra many many times when awful things were overwhelming me - and unlike other meditation techniques that one WORKED. It made me calmer, it made me more able to cope, it brought out my best self.

Because I believed in it, I believed in the integrity of the source.

That's real power.

#16 User is offline   Ilisidi 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 06:05 PM

Awwww, (((((((((Hawk))))))))) such a dear! :love:

What I got from Andromeda??

That tv really can show us something different, not in some form or fashion touched by the Star Trek universe but that indeed, the genre of science fiction has many flavors. How often do you get to see gritty stuff, that inspires you to do research and look up stuff, that compels you to rise to its level and not just sit there with your eyes going back and forth for exercise? But a tv show that dared to engage the viewer intellectually, stir their souls, question their values and look at another point of view in a different light??

From Andromeda -- I learned that better stories are shades of gray, not just always black and white, that there can be antiheroes coexisting with the hero, that there is indeed hope one small victory at a time.

From Andromeda -- I was forced to refresh myself on Machiavelli, forced to find out whether Nietzche was a real person, determined to catch my own *Nods-n-refs*, attempt to widen my knowledge.

And most of all, I discovered the world of fandom, the Slipstream community. I arrived in the midst of "Ouroborus" -- ;) -- and discovered a place where I could talk for hours on end about my new favorite tv show, with fellow s/f fans and those who wasn't really into s/f. Through fandom, I learned to be more discriminating and how to really pay attention to a show so that you can bring your own flavor to the discussion.

This is what I like to think about.

This post has been edited by Ilisidi: 02 February 2004 - 06:06 PM

found this tidbit in the note section!
Words of Zack RE Tyr: This is just one ex-writer speaking completely non-canonically, but in my mind the most fascinating thing about Tyr was that despite his breeding and socialization to be treacherous, opportunistic, and selfish, it was pretty clear that underneath it all, another aspect of Tyr's personality was to be gentle, loyal, and altruistic. We saw this most clearly in "Distant Drum," where with his memory gone Tyr's default mode was to protect the weak and risk his life for kludges, but it also surfaced in "Its Hour" with Tyr's obvious pride in and protectiveness toward Harper, and then in "All Too Human" (the title says it all), where Tyr is confused and enraged by his own compassion toward Harper. <br><br>In my own mind at least, Tyr's growth as a character was ultimately to try and merge what was best about the Nietzscheans (energy, intelligence, never say die attitude) with what was best about humanity (empathy, altruism, connectedness with others.)<br><br>As always, YMMV.

How I remember those days....

#17 User is offline   Mary Rose 

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 11:54 PM

I don't know how I overloked it. How could I? I forgot another important thing I got.

4. Fanfic. I got two new universes to play in, Andromeda and Forever Knight. I'll never stop writing the real 'Drom.
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#18 User is offline   TravelerOfTheWays 

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 12:43 AM

What did I get out Andromeda? KHC, Harper, and Rhade. Mmm. And heck, the others. Would I have seen Jason X without having seen Lexa and Lisa first? I speak the truth when I say that Lisa alone makes that movie worth seeing.

Some hella good quotes. Have I never said "sorry sack of mediocrity"? Rarely, but I have.

The deeper answers others have given and phrased much more eloquently than I could. Especially the interest in people mentioned, like Nietzsche. We read him for my humanities class, and I'm so glad I'd had a little exposure to him before reading him. And I was tickled to death at seeing Tyr read the Fountainhead (though I hope he didn't take Dominque's rape scene too seriously!!).

Fanfic, just as Mary Rose said. I haven't ventured much into original fiction yet, and I feel I'm building up my confidence and skill with fanfic. Mostly, though, I just love writing it. Andromeda is perfect for my sense of humor and 'shipper tendences :devil: @ Mary Rose And without Andromeda, I wouldn't have known Mary Rose--or any of you--at all!

And related to fanfic... RP. More specifically, my character Semir. She is my favorite character--original or otherwise--that I've ever created. This sounds exceedingly schizo, but if I'm feeling nervous or upset about something, I get into a Semir mindset and deal with it calmly and coolly and Nietzschean-ly.
"The corollary, of course, is that a Western man who treats women like they're, you know, people has an absurdly easy time of things. It's like a sexy lady liquidation event. NO REASONABLE OFFER WILL BE REFUSED."

~Rov

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