[G-man]

So, I'll have to re-watch Train Job and Shindig.

But something happened in Trash because Inara was backtracking from her comment of petty, and it was the comment "petty" that Mal had taken offense to, thus ending Inara's attempt to influence him.

As for companions, they are the courtesans of the Alliance, in demand, skilled in arts of conversation, seduction, and pillow play. They get gifts from their admirers, who number among the upper strata of society, and have a measure of influence in that same strata.

To paraphrase "La Vie Parissienne": "I'll go back to wooing high society women, as they are less expensive to maintain than a courtesan."

But, no matter the circles they run in, their popularity, or their influence, they are still perceived as whores, except that they have the power to refuse clients, thus making the bedding of them a signal honor. And unless you are in civilized and cultured circles, where the conversation can truly be appreciated for its own worth, then it is the bedding that is the primary preoccupation of the clients (as Ath mentioned in Shindig).

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself - who got the 100th post again

[Bad Wolf]

Handmaiden07, on Apr 26 2004, 10:13 AM, said:

Why Mal Calls Inara "Whore."

Per Lil's request, I'm here posting my "OFFICIAL OPINION" on this topic!

Well I can't *not* respond to this can I?

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1. Mal Reynolds does not agree with prostitution, and does not see "Companions" as anything different, other than having the polished veneer of alliance approval on it.  It reeks of an "alliance stench" - the re-labelling of something morally wrong and dressing it up and pronouncing it "right."  I'm very curious to know how the companion guild got started, and I'm also very curious to know how the alliance got started.  He likes to call companions whores in rebellion against the alliance - he sees it as scraping the polish off to show what it "REALLY" is.

I agree with almost all of this. (I'm having an eerie deja vous harkening back to our debates about Kodiak Pride over at Keith's board) The key difference is that I *don't* think Mal has a moral objection to prostitution per se. I think he objects to the "Companion" front to it because he thinks it's dishonest. I think that is what he's talking about in Shindig when he says that while what he's doing is illegal, it's not dishonest. In HOG he goes out of his way to be respectful to the whores because they're being honest about what they are. Add to that that the dishonesty (in Mal's view) of the Companion Guild is also associated with the Alliance and well, it's the kind of thing that can get a browncoat a might tetchy...

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2. Mal Reynolds is in love with Inara - and therefore doesn't want her whoring or otherwise being occupied with other men.  He gets mad when she has "business" to take care of.

Again, almost complete agreement with a slight nuance of disagreement. I think that if Mal were *not* in love with Inara and she was an independent whore like Nandi he wouldn't have a problem with it. Because he's in love with her he's just flat out jealous. You know how Inara was all broken up about him being with Nandi in HOG? I think that happens to Mal only internally every single time he thinks of Inara with another man. Poor Mal! {{{{{{{{{{{Mal}}}}}}}}}}}}}

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3. Mal Reynolds is in love w/ Inara and wants to convert her to his way of thinking, both about the alliance, and about whoring.  Mal Reynolds wants Inara to love him for the man he's chosen to be, and that includes, for him, rejection of the fancy-pantsy Alliance ways.

I agree he's in love with her. I agree he wants to convert her to his way of thinking about the Alliance. I think that if he were not in love with her and she was an independent whore he wouldn't have a problem.

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4. Mal Reynolds is human, and under the strain of all these emotions, sometimes just lashes out.

Yeah. Gorram BULLY!!!!!!!!!

Lil

[QueenTiye]

LOL! Well, I there you have it! I DO think Mal objects to "whoring" and I think there's plenty enough evidence of it. And I don't disagree that he's a bully, but I don't think he only bullies the women. Oh, wait... that was another conversation, wasn't it...


LOL!
HM07

[Bad Wolf]

G-man, on Apr 26 2004, 10:52 AM, said:

But something happened in Trash because Inara was backtracking from her comment of petty, and it was the comment "petty" that Mal had taken offense to, thus ending Inara's attempt to influence him.

I agree. Something *did* happen. I think that the underpinings of that whole argument was that Inara was right that Mal was avoiding work in more civilized locales. What was unsaid was that the last job they had in more civilized locales was the incident that got Mal captured by Niska and literally tortured to death. Inara would NEVER cal Mal a coward but I think that what she was getting at was that his avoidance of civilization has to do with being understandably gunshy after War Stories. But neither one of them was going to say it so they resorted to the usual sniping only because of what was *really* going on in both of their minds, the "petty" remark affected them both as it had not before...

Lil

[QueenTiye]

Una Salus Lillius, on Apr 26 2004, 02:01 PM, said:

I agree. Something *did* happen. I think that the underpinings of that whole argument was that Inara was right that Mal was avoiding work in more civilized locales. What was unsaid was that the last job they had in more civilized locales was the incident that got Mal captured by Niska and literally tortured to death. Inara would NEVER cal Mal a coward but I think that what she was getting at was that his avoidance of civilization has to do with being understandably gunshy after War Stories. But neither one of them was going to say it so they resorted to the usual sniping only because of what was *really* going on in both of their minds, the "petty" remark affected them both as it had not before...

Lil

Wow...

{{{{{{{{{{{{MAL}}}}}}}}}}}

[Bad Wolf]

Yeah. {{{{{{{{{{{{{Mal}}}}}}}}}}}}} The more I think about it the more I think I'm right. There's only so much one man can reasonably be expected to endure before something gives.

And {{{{{{{{{{{Nathan}}}}}}}}}} for bringing such a complicated character to such life!

[Delvo]

About the honesty or dishonesty of "Companions", I have to repeat something I said once at Firefly Fans: His calling her an "ambassador" isn't a sheepish euphemism trying to avoid talking about what she really does; it's drawing a direct analogy. Both a Companion and an ambassador are all about image with nothing behind it. They both do work that can be dirty and distasteful in terms of morality and human behavior and spend their time hobnobbing among fatcats and bigshots, which are generally the corrupt and dirty people of the universe. But they never have to put up with any real discomfort or serious work, and both of them get lots of money and terribly inflated reputations (among the pretentious types in the world who go in for stuff like that) for how special they are for being able to do such important and subtly challenging work.

[Bad Wolf]

You don't think that prostitution involves hard work? Sex takes lots of energy Delvo. And you don't think Ambassadors do hard work? Or is your post about what Malcolm thinks about these things?

[Cardie]

Una Salus Lillius, on Apr 26 2004, 01:57 PM, said:

(I'm having an eerie deja vous harkening back to our debates about Kodiak Pride over at Keith's board)

That's deja vu, Lil. It means "seen again," not "you again."

Cardie

[QueenTiye]

**AHEM** Given that we can reasonably expect for companions to have to **service** clients they may personally not be attracted to, and do it convincingly, I think that might take a little work... and it might certainly be discomforting...

And I had once hoped that they would have turned out to be sorta like the psychologists of their day. While it doesn't seem quite that way, now, I still wonder if Inara is a companion because she's part of a committed core of people trying to elevate the profession into something like that. Which would certainly be work.

Point is still well made however, about the inflated reputations of companions, and Mal's view of them.

HM07

[Bad Wolf]

Cardie, on Apr 26 2004, 11:23 AM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Apr 26 2004, 01:57 PM, said:

(I'm having an eerie deja vous harkening back to our debates about Kodiak Pride over at Keith's board)

That's deja vu, Lil. It means "seen again," not "you again."

Cardie

And the Queen of Pedantry™ strikes again!!!!!!!!!!

[G-man]

Handmaiden07, on Apr 26 2004, 06:37 PM, said:

**AHEM** Given that we can reasonably expect for companions to have to **service** clients they may personally not be attracted to, and do it convincingly, I think that might take a little work... and it might certainly be discomforting...

And I had once hoped that they would have turned out to be sorta like the psychologists of their day. While it doesn't seem quite that way, now, I still wonder if Inara is a companion because she's part of a committed core of people trying to elevate the profession into something like that. Which would certainly be work.

Point is still well made however, about the inflated reputations of companions, and Mal's view of them.

HM07

Actually, as Companions get to select their clientelle, chances are they don't have to service those whom they have no attraction.

But no, Companions, while maybe having training in psychology, body language, pressure points and self defence, are meant to be courtesans, there to please, not psychoanalyze, the clients.

That was what Whedon pointed up in his commentary on SERENITY, about that scene where Book, the preacher, is receiving absolution for his sins from Inara, the courtesan.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

[QueenTiye]

To the contrary - we've seen her on at least one dud date, and we've had Kaylee wishing her glamourous dates... meaning sometimes they ... aren't...

[Bad Wolf]

Although Kaylee also asked her if she ever has to service really hideous people and Inara was pretty clear that she makes the choices. Still, one never knows. There's still a lot of risk involved imo.

Lil

[G-man]

Please note, I said "no attraction".

The fact that an otherwise nice, but inexperienced person, ends up insulting her when he didn't mean too ... and Atherton turned out to be especially boorish, didn't mean that they didn't have some attraction for her. It's just that Mal managed to coax forth Atherton's true nature in front of Inara.

But the whole nature of the Companion Guild makes it plain, anyone who is reported abusive or otherwise unworthy is given a black mark and thus is blackballed by ALL Companions. This is a powerful tool, especially if Companions are sought by high society, and no doubt one's reputation would be seriously harmed if word got out that he couldn't even pay for a date with one of these ladies.

Hurmmm ... actually in writing the above, reputation is a facet that is repeated throughout the series. Badger's reputation with "the community", Niska's reputation with the other bosses, Mal's reputation (and perceived reputation) with his crew, his buddies, and his business associates, Jayne's reputation in the Hero of Mudville, Atherton's reputation both before and after the duel, and even the Alliance's reputation, and the lies they are built on. I may be over thinking this, but it seems that the creators are doing a study of the effects of reputation on both the observer and the observed, and what circumstances exist that the observed would say "reputation be damned! help me!"

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself