[Lyric of Delphi]

I was wondering about this particular item the other day. You can write in first person, in third person, or with an omniscient narrator, but where's second person? What is that, anyway? And if it doesn't exist, why name first and third person first and third person and skip the one in the middle? I'm terribly confused.

[Orpheus]

Seond person is written as if *you* were the protagonist. You can see why this might require a very different approach, but I've found that the big difference is in how a scene is framed, and how information is revealed; the other adaptations in style and "boilerplate" (pronoun formulations, etc) come fairly naturally after a while -- which I suppose could also be said for the various flavors of first person and third, as well

I can see its potential as an extension of the reader's self-identification with (e.g.) a first person character, but done badly, it can feel like bullying or read like a stilted text adventure computer game. Perhaps I simply haven't read any truly impressive examples. I understand Bright Lights, Big City was written in second person.

Outside of fiction, I find it quite natural to slip into second person as a rhetorical tool.

Writer's Digest did a blurb on it this summer. I suspect you'll find more on writer's sites.
[edited to fix link]

This post has been edited by Orpheus: 18 December 2004 - 02:53 PM

[Christopher]

Lyric Z D, on Dec 18 2004, 11:53 AM, said:

I was wondering about this particular item the other day. You can write in first person, in third person, or with an omniscient narrator, but where's second person? What is that, anyway? And if it doesn't exist, why name first and third person first and third person and skip the one in the middle? I'm terribly confused.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These terms weren't coined for narration styles, they're grammatical categories. The first person singular is "I," the first person plural is "we," the second person singular or plural is "you" (except in the southern US where the second person plural is "you all"), the third person singular is "he/she/it," and the third person plural is "they." In Latin, the first, second and third person singular forms of "to love" are amo, amas and amat -- I love, you love, he/she/it loves. And so on.

This post has been edited by Christopher: 18 December 2004 - 03:14 PM

[Lyric of Delphi]

Orph: That's what I kind of guessed it might be, but yeah, I've never read any examples of that. Unless...would "The Great Gatsby" be in second person? The story really isn't about that Nick chap who tells it.

Chris: Okay, I can see the origins now. Interesting.

Thanks guys.

[Christopher]

Lyric Z D, on Dec 18 2004, 08:40 PM, said:

Orph: That's what I kind of guessed it might be, but yeah, I've never read any examples of that. Unless...would "The Great Gatsby" be in second person? The story really isn't about that Nick chap who tells it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm... no, you're missing the point. A second-person narrative by definition would have to be something speaking directly to the reader. "Your goldfish has been kidnapped. If you ever want to see it again, you will leave $50,000 dollars in a briefcase by the statue of Millard Fillmore in the park. If you call the police, you'll be sorry." That's second-person writing.

In The Great Gatsby, the narrator is speaking from his own perspective, telling you his own thoughts and experiences. "In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since." That's first-person by definition. If it had been "In Nick's younger and more vulnerable years his father gave him some advice that he'd been turning over in his mind ever since," that would be third-person.

This post has been edited by Christopher: 18 December 2004 - 09:50 PM

[Lyric of Delphi]

Oh, okay. So it is like a bad video game scenario. Got it now.

I see why it isn't used often.

[Orpheus]

Yeah, I see that I really blew the phrasing on my first post. When I said "*you* were the protagonist" I meant "the reader, addressed by the author using the pronoun 'you', is the protagonist."

"You're usually the type of person who chooses your words with some care -- perhaps not frugally or with any particular distinction, but with enough habitual care that your sloppier blunders are usually forgivable. Yet here you stand, shackled on a pillory of your own construction, as your third person alter-ego peddles rotten vegetables to the crowd. They're too polite to throw them, but their kindness is for naught. Now you'll be forced to compose the subtly acerbic yet cutting allegories and mocking holiday filks yourself, and you know exactly where all your buttons and sore points are."

[D.Lerious]

Actually, there existed this series of books called 'choose you own adventure' and it used the second person . It would say something like:

' you are in a tunnel

turn to page 68 if you want to go in
turn to page 72 if you'd prefer to turn back.'

This post has been edited by D.Lerious: 19 December 2004 - 02:55 AM

[doxymom]

A *LOT* of fanfic is written in second person. But pro publishers tend to shy away from it's a bit awkward to read.

>>>>You draw your forcelance and look over at Rommie, standing beside you. She gives you that little half-smile that curls your toes--though you'd never admit it.

"Dylan, I'll watch your back," she tells you.>>>>

Present tense, second person.

Anna

[Christopher]

doxymom, on Dec 21 2004, 12:43 PM, said:

A *LOT* of fanfic is written in second person.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps this is adopted from text-based RPGs. At least, once a friend of mine and I did a sort of two-person RPG via e-mail, with her as gamemaster, and her descriptions were written in second person present.

[ChicaFrom3]

I've written in the second person for fanfic before, but always for angst, and always with the "you" being understood to be a previously established character.

For example:

Quote

You see her smile at you, and in that moment, you know...it's all going to be okay.

I like experimenting with both person and tense to see what kind of immediacy and, well, for lack of a better word, "punch" it gives the story. Second person can give the reader the illusion of being involved in a way that even first person can't. However, I prefer to write in the first or third person. Still, to each her (or his) own.

[waterpanther]

See Robert Silverberg's "Sundance" for an example.

[QueenTiye]

Isn't A Series of Unfortunate Events written in second-person narrative?

HM07

[Una McCormack]

Iain Banks' novel Complicity uses the second person. It's a pretty gruesome read, though, be warned.

[Christopher]

Handmaiden07, on Jan 18 2005, 10:52 AM, said:

Isn't A Series of Unfortunate Events written in second-person narrative?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, or at least not primarily. The narrator does address the audience directly -- "If you are interested in stories with happy endings, you would be better off reading some other book" -- and he does refer to himself from time to time, giving it first-person elements; but mostly he's describing the experiences of people other than himself or his listener, and that is third-person. In order for it to be second-person, it would have to address the reader as though the reader oneself were the central character.

"You wake up in the morning and find you have tranformed into a giant gecko" is second person. "I fear it may shock you, Gentle Reader, to hear that Bertram Billings awoke to find he had transformed into a giant gecko" perhaps contains elements of all three, but it's mostly third person with a dollop of first. Since the second person, you the reader, is merely a passive observer, it doesn't qualify as a second-person narrative.

[Psykopsyke]

The movie Hope and Glory is kinda done in a second voice.

[Drew]

^ How figure? I'm not sure film can really be described in the same manner as written narrative. Certainly some films unfold from a particular character's point of view, but that's not necessarily the same thing. That's more "third-person limited."

"Bright Lights, Big City" was, indeed, second person. And the framing sections of Italo Calvino's "If on a Winter's Night a Traveler" is second person. I know I've read a number of short stories told from that perspective, too, but they seemed to be done for the novelty of it rather than because the story had to be told that way.

This post has been edited by Drew: 21 October 2005 - 01:41 PM

[TravelerOfTheWays]

Another one in second person, at least part of the time, is Childwold by Joyce Carol Oates. I don't remember if all the characters are expressed this way, but at least the main character is. The book is quite a challenge to read, partly because of that second person narrative. It makes it difficult to envision a scene if you don't know who's in it!

[LaughingVulcan]

I remember an episode of M*A*S*H shot entirely from the eye perspective of a wounded soldier. I'd count that as an episode shot in second person, though you could say that it's first person. Can't think of any other TV or movies off the top of my head that stayed in a second person perspective.