[DWF]

Spoilers

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The Daedalus is infected by a Wraith computer virus, while members of the expedition hope to return to Earth.

[cylkoth]

Adama was right about the perils of networked computers...

[Lord Ravensburg]

The episodes did have some pretty strange similiarities tonight...

[Han]

Is it me, or does Daedalus look kind of like the USS Defiant? Like a beefed up, less streamlined version?

[NeuralClone]

^

From certain angles, yes, it does. There's nothing wrong with that, IMO.

[Han]

^ I completely agree.

[Christopher]

Hankuang, on Jul 23 2005, 02:01 AM, said:

Is it me, or does Daedalus look kind of like the USS Defiant? Like a beefed up, less streamlined version?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was reminded more of the Galactica, with those side launch bays. The Defiant is a significantly smaller ship, so I never even thought to compare them.

This was an appropriate choice for the first post-cliffhanger episode of the season. Now that the Daedalus and its crew have been added to the show, we're given an episode focusing on them in order to give us a better sense of them and their capabilities. We also get exposition about their trip back to Earth and the new status quo. Shep's a colonel now, Elizabeth's boyfriend "met someone else," Caldwell wanted Shep's job but didn't get it.

Also, Atlantis can now dial Earth at will, but it's one-way; getting from Earth to Atlantis requires 18 days aboard the Daedalus, and you have to wait another 18 days for it to reach Earth from Pegasus first. That preserves some of the "on their own" feel of the show; they can't just call up the SGC and ask them to send a bunch of troops through. They can communicate with Earth anytime they like and ask for advice, but advice and words of encouragement are all they can get with less than 36 days' notice.

Also this was a nice money-saving episode after that big season opener -- a bottle show taking place on ship sets left over from SG-1, so almost nothing new needed to be built. (There was the boyfriend's place on Earth, but that would've been a simple enough set.) I assume even the Asgard puppet was reused.

What's the Asgard's name? Hermion? Hmm, Gateworld says Hermiod. Doesn't sound Norse to me, but Encyclopedia Mythica has an entry for Hermod, who was the messenger of the Norse gods -- which is interesting, because that sure seems like there was some cultural cross-pollination with the Greeks. Apparently his voice is by Trevor Devall. A pity -- Asgard voices are usually done by an existing cast member (Shanks, Rothery).

[Nialla]

Entertaining enough, but I felt it was a rehash of SG-1's "Entity" combined with "Tangent." At least they're homaging themselves this time.

But give me a lot of Rodney scenes, and I'm a happy bunny.

[Hibblette]

I loved Rodney's frustration in this.

I loved that Shepherd figured this out, of course this was to let Caldwell see what Elizabeth was saying. Shepherd is just a sharp tack-perhaps it's the ancient gene connection-isn't it interesting that the closer they were getting to Atlantis the better he was at figuring these things out.

In regards to the Norse there's a theory out there that the Gods that we know as the Norse Gods only came into existence after the Norse were exposed to the whole Roman/Greco world.

[cylkoth]

And the SG-1/Atlantis timeline is clarified. Daniel's missed trip to Atlantis in Avalon, would have taked place after the Daedalus left Earth in this episode.

And I also thought of the Defiant the first time I saw the Daed. As Christopher said, a nice bottle show, that nicely used pre-existing sets to it's advantage, making the production look even bigger than it already is. Good to see Shep feeling angst over Ford, and the frustration the Ford family must deal with, not knowing where Aiden is posted or what has happened to him. The nits I'll pick is Teyla playing secretary-she had to do something, but I half expected her to offer to fetch a pot of coffee for Weir..goodness, what was up with that.
Plus, maybe it's just me, but there was way too much of a Trek vibe going on, most shows try strenuously to avoid the near patented Trek terminology-and I know O'Neill has used it in good fun at times, but this was the most Trekish episode I can think of...

This post has been edited by cylkoth: 23 July 2005 - 11:26 AM

[DWF]

cylkoth, on Jul 23 2005, 12:23 PM, said:

but this was the most Trekish episode I can think of...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought was Grace was far more Trek like than this one.

[Cardie]

cylkoth, on Jul 23 2005, 11:23 AM, said:

Plus, maybe it's just me, but there was way too much of a Trek vibe going on, most shows try strenuously to avoid the near patented Trek terminology-and I know O'Neill has used it in good fun at times, but this was the most Trekish episode I can think of...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not just you. I kept thinking that the onboard ship parts would have made a perfect Trek script. How many times does the Enterprise find itself in the grip of something that's disabling systems and threatening them with annihilation, and the crew tries one thing after another to save the ship. Granted Trek would be more technobabbly, and the threat would obviously not be from the Wraith, but combining the narrative structure with frequent mentions of beaming, arrays, and dropping out of warp, oops hyperspace, I felt that the episode was very Treklike, too.

The vignettes from Earth and the interactions of the crew with our Asgard recurring character were the best part.

Cardie

[Christopher]

Nialla, on Jul 23 2005, 10:36 AM, said:

Entertaining enough, but I felt it was a rehash of SG-1's "Entity" combined with "Tangent." At least they're homaging themselves this time. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, I found it more of a parallel with "Hide and Seek." In both seasons so far, the second episode has been a bottle show involving an unseen, incorporeal enemy.

Hibblette, on Jul 23 2005, 11:37 AM, said:

In regards to the Norse there's a theory out there that the Gods that we know as the Norse Gods only came into existence after the Norse were exposed to the whole Roman/Greco world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, interesting. But when and how did that exposure take place? Well, come to think of it, probably due to the Roman conquest/interaction with Germanic tribes. Although in the SG-verse, it might have more to do with the partnership between the Ancients (identified with the "builders of roads" in Roman mythology) and the Asgard.

cylkoth, on Jul 23 2005, 12:23 PM, said:

And the SG-1/Atlantis timeline is clarified. Daniel's missed trip to Atlantis in Avalon, would have taked place after the Daedalus left Earth in this episode.

Yep, I figured that, because the month-plus timeframe mentioned in "Avalon, Part 1" was longer than the interval between "Letters from Pegasus" and "The Siege." This just confirms it. But interestingly, it means Gen. Landry's scene here took place before his first scenes in "Avalon." Which means he must've been around for a couple of weeks before "Avalon," judging from the sequence of events suggested in "The Intruder," even though he seemed pretty new to the command in "Avalon."

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The nits I'll pick is Teyla playing secretary-she had to do something, but I half expected her to offer to fetch a pot of coffee for Weir..goodness, what was up with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was wondering why she didn't come along. She seemed curious about Earth last season.

Cardie, on Jul 23 2005, 12:43 PM, said:

cylkoth, on Jul 23 2005, 11:23 AM, said:

Plus, maybe it's just me, but there was way too much of a Trek vibe going on, most shows try strenuously to avoid the near patented Trek terminology-and I know O'Neill has used it in good fun at times, but this was the most Trekish episode I can think of...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not just you. I kept thinking that the onboard ship parts would have made a perfect Trek script. How many times does the Enterprise find itself in the grip of something that's disabling systems and threatening them with annihilation, and the crew tries one thing after another to save the ship. Granted Trek would be more technobabbly, and the threat would obviously not be from the Wraith, but combining the narrative structure with frequent mentions of beaming, arrays, and dropping out of warp, oops hyperspace, I felt that the episode was very Treklike, too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I thought there were some moments where they subtly critiqued Trek cliches, like pointing out the absurdity of having a single central computer that controlled everything. Or resorting to the brute-force solution of blowing up the transmitter array. But that did kind of get undermined when they beamed Shepherd out from a sitting position and he materialized standing up -- something which happened on Trek more than once. I would've expected these writers either to avoid that logic glitch or at least to remark on its weirdness. So they dropped the ball there. I guess I can rationalize it as a function of near-magical Asgard tech, but still....

[Hibblette]

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Hmm, interesting. But when and how did that exposure take place? Well, come to think of it, probably due to the Roman conquest/interaction with Germanic tribes. Although in the SG-verse, it might have more to do with the partnership between the Ancients (identified with the "builders of roads" in Roman mythology) and the Asgard.

Exactly. There's also a theory that the Norse Gods were actually a family that had great wealth (yes The Kennedy's ) anyways, one of the telling differences with the Norse and the Roman/Greco is that the Gods can die or at least be in harms way. I always thought that was interesting. This is a remnant of their ancients. The Norse and the Celt have this in common, the Mer of Celt lore were not necessarily Gods as they were just a group of people that showed up one day.

Now to the timeline-In Avalon wasn't it pretty well established that Landry had been there for awhile-it was Browders character that had his first day.

Eh-with Teyla I felt she was just being mother hen Teyla. In fact she probably didn't go because she gave everyone [except my little Czech scientist-I love this guy ] the chance to go home, and it looked like she was in charge-quite a plus for an alien.

They probably didn't have Shepherd teleport in a sitting position because that would have been akin to the Three Stooges and to me one of the purposes of this ep was to show that Shepherd is not a stooge or a bad boy but a very intelligent (although wisecracking) military kinda guy. So they had the simple wisecrack about checking the rest later.

I loved the scene with Weir and Landry and Caldwell. See they were looking from the perspective of this hot dog pilot that had problems with authority in the past and from her report they really honed in on those times that he questioned her. That was her anger that she suddenly had (and the actress did quite well there) was because she realized they weren't seeing the big picture and they weren't taking into account of the situation they all were in. So she trumped 'em with the President and other Leaders of the world-I thought that was pretty good actually. It was one of those Harper Moments So There.

And one little thing I have to mention here that is always (or seems to be) a running comment on men and women and relationships in these kind of TV shows. Ladies if you go off for a long time, in fact you tell the guy you might not be back, if you do come back just ask the question, "Found someone new?"

:wideeyed:

This post has been edited by Hibblette: 23 July 2005 - 01:51 PM

[gaius claudius]

I generally enjoyed the episode, but with all the Earth vignettes, I was really disappointed that they didn't have one for Rodney...its like if he doesn't a have a serious homelife, they can continue to try and make him a two dimensional carricature..



gc

[Hibblette]

Regarding Rodney-actually he doesn't have much of a life outside of his work.

That was established in the episode when they thought they had gone back. Even in his mind he was pathetically alone. It's really a sad thing about Rodney. Always has been since his first introduction into SG-1. :pout:

[Orpheus]

Piddling observations:

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At least they're homaging themselves this time.

I must be getting hungry. I could have sworn you said "fromaging" themselves. I didn't think it was *that* cheesy!

Actually, that should probably join the lexicon: FROMAGE: a cheesy SF homage.

Quote

...but combining the narrative structure with frequent mentions of beaming, arrays, and dropping out of warp, oops hyperspace, I felt that the episode was very Treklike, too.

The vignettes from Earth and the interactions of the crew with our Asgard recurring character were the best part.

Yes, I found myself noting the frequent use of the in situ transporter, too. It created a very different feel from e.g. the ring transporter or the occassional Asgard transport of previous episodes. I didn't think it felt too "treklike" because of the cinematography and pacing, but I have to admit that there were a few episodes in the later years of DS-9 [I didn't watch Voyager] that used similar cuts.

I love it when Hesod grumbles to himself. Someday I'm going to subtitle him.

Quote

Yep, I figured that, because the month-plus timeframe mentioned in "Avalon, Part 1" was longer than the interval between "Letters from Pegasus" and "The Siege." This just confirms it. But interestingly, it means Gen. Landry's scene here took place before his first scenes in "Avalon." Which means he must've been around for a couple of weeks before "Avalon," judging from the sequence of events suggested in "The Intruder," even though he seemed pretty new to the command in "Avalon."

Landry: I looked for the key to that desk for a week before I finally got him to admit he'd never had one. [Ergo, Landry had assumed command at least a week before cameron arrived

Less conclusive: Teal'c had left over a month before. Daniel had requested reassignment over a week before. Carter was already gone. I presume the last two, at least, would have stayed as long as Jack did

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The nits I'll pick is Teyla playing secretary-she had to do something, but I half expected her to offer to fetch a pot of coffee for Weir..goodness, what was up with that.

Interesting: I *literally* expected her to. That pot of coffee behind them seemed to be crying out for it. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time I thought I heard a pot of coffee crying out to me

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I was wondering why she didn't come along. She seemed curious about Earth last season.

It's possible that --especially under the new command-- it was considered an unnecessary risk to bring any Pegasus personnel, back to Earth. Especially ones the wraith could potentially mind-read. Scientific? Maybe not [it's not like she's be riding a car and noting the expressway and off ramp numbers] but there are so many wild and wondrous things going on in Pegasus, and Landry said he'd had no foreknowledge of the Stargate program before jack approached him about taking the command.

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I would've expected these writers either to avoid that logic glitch or at least to remark on its weirdness. So they dropped the ball there. I guess I can rationalize it as a function of near-magical Asgard tech, but still...

I thought hey *did* subtly remark on it through McKay's deliberately silly "minimal wall intersecting" position before beaming into the flight bay -- but maybe I give them too much credit.

Quote

Ladies if you go off for a long time, in fact you tell the guy you might not be back, if you do come back just ask the question, "Found someone new?"

Yes, that bugged me too -- perhaps because I could put myself in the position of the man she left behind.

Fortunately, IME, if you tell a woman that you want the best for her, too much to ask her to wait. She will be there when you get back.

Women. Gotta love 'em. (It seems to be some sort of physical law. In my case anyway--something like the Ax+b strong force)

[Christopher]

Hibblette, on Jul 23 2005, 02:46 PM, said:

They probably didn't have Shepherd teleport in a sitting position because that would have been akin to the Three Stooges and to me one of the purposes of this ep was to show that Shepherd is not a stooge or a bad boy but a very intelligent (although wisecracking) military kinda guy.  So they had the simple wisecrack about checking the rest later.

I don't think it would've made him look comical; on the contrary, having him unrealistically and inexplicably change position makes the scene harder to take seriously. Having him materialize seated and fall down would be perfectly understandable to the audience and wouldn't be held against him. In fact, I'm inclined to think we've seen such a thing on SG-1 already, though I can't quite recall.

At the very least, they could've had him materialize at an angle, sort of a recliner-chair posture with his backside already on the ground. No need to budget for a stunt fall, but the credibility of the scene is maintained.

gaius claudius, on Jul 23 2005, 02:47 PM, said:

I generally enjoyed the episode, but with all the Earth vignettes, I was really disappointed that they didn't have one for Rodney...its like if he doesn't a have a serious homelife, they can continue to try and make him a two dimensional carricature..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, what could they have done as a "home life" scene for him except to show him spending time with his cat? Not that I would've minded seeing that....

Orpheus, on Jul 23 2005, 03:22 PM, said:

Landry: I looked for the key to that desk for a week before I finally got him to admit he'd never had one. [Ergo, Landry had assumed command at least a week before cameron arrived

Okay. Confirmed that he was there for at least a week. But he was still fiddling with where to put the desk. Well, I guess that was a low-priority decision and he had a lot of other stuff to work out first.

Let's see, though. Here we were told that it's an 18-day trip between Earth and Atlantis, but that Weir and her team simply stepped through the Stargate and got there instantly. And we can assume the Daedalus spent some time undergoing repairs upon its return to Earth; we were also told that Weir's team had been away from Atlantis for two months. If we assume that the phrase "two months" refers to a minimum of, say, 50 days, then Our Heroes must have been back home for at least a month, at most about six weeks. And they would've departed during "Avalon, Part 1," while Daniel was unconscious.

So the question is, how far into their visit did the scene with Landry take place? Probably not too near the beginning, since it seemed the basics of debriefing, medical checks, etc. had been resolved already and they were in the process of discussing the new team for the return trip. But it couldn't be too near the end, because there was still the whole process of team selection to deal with, and IIRC there were several days between Weir learning that Simon hadn't signed the release and him revealing that he'd met someone (I think, maybe, not sure). Well, let's see, maybe it could've been 2-3 weeks before departure and thus before "Avalon."

[Orpheus]

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Okay. Confirmed that he was there for at least a week. But he was still fiddling with where to put the desk. Well, I guess that was a low-priority decision and he had a lot of other stuff to work out first.

Perhaps Dr. Lam's remark was actually a serious comment on a character trait, rather than (or in addition to) a reference to something in their shared past. I'm not sure why this would be important or how it would play out.

Maybe he'll push actively for more exploration, a larger role in galactic affairs, or *taking the battle to the Wraith" (better than letting them bring it to us!)

Maybe he isn't quite comfortable with desk-jockeying vs. making immediate decisions -- if not as bad as Jack (who wasn't crazy about having crisis decision pushed on him either), I can see these shared traits contributing to Jack choosing him over a field of more conventional "executive" generals.

I think I recall a few small moments that might support this. I'll have to re-watch. Gotta get a read on the new guy(s).

Actually, it could just be "new guy' jitters. When I'm undertaking an unfamiliar project or new position, I often spend an inordinate time on elaborate organization systems "for efficiency" . It could also be a way of telling himself: "I belong here. I will succeed here, and still be here in months or years -- so it matters that I get my desk in the right place!' He could move it at any time (after he has some experience to judge by) but don't try to tell *me*that when I'm in one of my organization fits.

This post has been edited by Orpheus: 23 July 2005 - 05:00 PM

[KathyW2200]

Hibblette, on Jul 23 2005, 07:46 PM, said:

I loved the scene with Weir and Landry and Caldwell.  See they were looking from the perspective of this hot dog pilot that had problems with authority in the past and from her report they really honed in on those times that he questioned her.  That was her anger that she suddenly had (and the actress did quite well there) was because she realized they weren't seeing the big picture and they weren't taking into account of the situation they all were in.  So she trumped 'em with the President and other Leaders of the world-I thought that was pretty good actually.  It was one of those Harper Moments So There. 

And it was a Tori Higginson moment for me. I've never really liked her until this moment. I didn't actively dislike her either, but I really, really liked the first Weir, so I began watching with a huge disappointment that the original actress wasn't there. This scene was the first where I gave her an unqualified Yes!. And to think that Caldwell not only didn't get the job he wanted, but had to put up with a promoted Shepard.....oh, sweet. Very sweet.