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Record set for hottest temperature on Earth Scientists produce gas more than 100 times hotter than the sun

#1 User is offline   White Tiger 

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 05:56 PM

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Scientists have produced superheated gas exceeding temperatures of 2 billion degrees Kelvin, or 3.6 billion degrees Fahrenheit.

This is hotter than the interior of our sun, which is about 15 million degrees Kelvin, and also hotter than any previous temperature ever achieved on Earth, they say.

They don't know how they did it


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#2 User is offline   Christopher 

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 06:40 PM

I'd say "cool," but....
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#3 User is offline   White Tiger 

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 07:20 PM

And once again

Badum bum
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#4 User is offline   Orpheus 

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 02:36 AM

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"One thing that puzzles scientists is that the high temperature was achieved after the plasma’s ions should have been losing energy and cooling. Also, when the high temperature was achieved, the Z machine was releasing more energy than was originally put in, something that usually occurs only in nuclear reactions.

"Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines theorizes that some unknown energy source is involved, which is providing the machine with an extra jolt of energy just as the plasma ions are beginning to slow down."

Cool indeed!

#5 User is offline   D.Rabbit 

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 06:35 AM

What's the practical application?

It produces more energy than it takes in, while using an unknown energy source. I suspect that the magnets had a little something to do with it.

They change occurred when they switched from tungsten to steel, what do you suppose would happen if they switched to magnetite?
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#6 User is offline   Orpheus 

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 11:13 AM

Tungsten was used because it is more durable and chemically resistant at high temperatures than steel-- the same reason it's used in light bulb filiaments. However, tungsten also has a lower electrical conductivity than steel, so replacing the thinner tungsten-steel wires with somewhat thicker steel (alloy?) wires woulkd allow greater current for a given voltage.

Tungsten is an element -- a pure substance made of a single type of atom. Steel is a alloy of the element iron with a few percent of carbon for strength. Quite often, other elements are added for other properties. Stainless steel, for example, generally contains at least 10.5% of the element Chromium (for greater resistance to chemical attack) and various stainless steel "recipes" contains small amounts of nickel, molybdenum, titanium, copper and other elements, to optimize other properties.

Magnetite is simply one name for a mineral form of the element iron. As a natural mineral, it is generally not pure iron (which, as we know, is highly oxidizable) but is a mixture of relatively pure iron with some iron oxide and various trace compounds (depending on source)

Magnetite really doesn't have any special properties that aren't generally shared by bulk iron, because iron and iron oxides are "ionic" (the chemical bonds are omnidirectional charge attractions, rather than electron pair sharing between two specific atoms) Though iron does have some mesoscale structure (local microscrystals organized in a specific direction) it doesn't have anything like the versatility of carbon, which has *covalent bonds, and whose natural mineral forms can have dramatically different properties depending on their structure (e.g. diamond, graphite and buckministerfullerene are all pure carbon with consistent patterns of chemical bonds; coal and charcoal are amorphous carbon (no uniform structure) with some impurities from their natural origin; activated charcoal is high purity amorphous carbon, made in factories)

To envision this, you can think of iron atoms as little magnetic balls. You can imagine how these balls will tend to organize themselves in a nice tight orderly crystalline packing over short distances. Carbon (and covalent compounds) have direct bonds, like the sticks of a tinkertoy set. While a pile of iron magnet balls will have some interesting properties, the number of distinctly different things it can do is fairly small. Tinkertoys allow for much more versatile and different structures

[If you build flat hexagonal grids of tinkertoys, and stack them so the layers ccan slide easily over each other, you'd have the structure of graphite (often used as a lubricant). If, instead, you built a 3-D hexagonal grid (it's actually based on tetrahedrons -- but it's NOT a tetrahedral grid) then you'd have something that was very rigid in 3 dimensions -- a diamond. If you took the basic hexagon grid of graphite, but removed or doubled-up some, so the flat grid started to curl up, you'd get the basic curved structures seen in buckminsterfulleres (buckyballs, buckytubes, etc) -- Buckminister Fuller geodesic dome or tubes are classic tinkertoy projects. Buckyballs are actually exactly the pattern of pentagons and hexagons seen on the outside of a soccer ball. Magnet balls, by contrast, don't organize themselves in amy different ways]

I don't think magnetite would have any substantial effect. It has a lower tensile strength than steel (requiring thicker wires) and a comparable electical conductivity (depending on the steel alloy used) but the magnetic properties of the magnetite itself will vanish at relatively low temperatures. The so-called "curie point" of pure iron is 1043 K ( ~1400 F), and above that temperature iron *isn't* spontaneously magnetic, as it is at room temperature-- it's only magnetic the same way *any other* moving ion or plasma would be. The organization of charges in the outer shell of iron atoms simply gets wrecked at high temps.

And we're not talking thousands of degrees in this experiment, or merely millions, but *billions*. At those temperatures, the room temperature properties of iron are even less relevant than the magical superfluid properties of liquid helium at 2.17K are to a child's party balloon.

#7 User is offline   D.Rabbit 

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 12:17 PM

I see what you mean, thanks for the explanation.


So what we are looking at is a reaction that accelerates for a while, when it cools. Any theories on that?
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#8 User is offline   D.Rabbit 

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Posted 12 March 2006 - 01:24 PM

Still thinking my question over guys?
I know it made my eyes cross trying to figure it out, but I'm a high school drop out. I was thinking there might be something in the cooling agents of oil and water that is causing this, but it doesn't seem likely.

The only thing I know of that expands when it cools is water, what else?
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#9 User is offline   Datalyss 

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 04:10 AM

View PostWhite Tiger, on Mar 10 2006, 04:56 PM, said:

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Scientists have produced superheated gas exceeding temperatures of 2 billion degrees Kelvin, or 3.6 billion degrees Fahrenheit.

They don't know how they did it



Beans. :howling:

#10 User is offline   woody000 

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 06:21 AM

lol, people love blaming magnetism.

This post has been edited by woody000: 13 March 2006 - 06:22 AM


#11 User is offline   Kosh 

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 03:29 PM

Probably somehting about Plasma that we don't know yet.
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#12 User is offline   Orpheus 

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 10:45 PM

Incidentally, though I don't have the link anymore, Christopher(?) once pointed me at a clever proof showing that magnetism automatically emerges from the relativistic equations for electric charge. It's not a separate thing.

#13 User is offline   Anarch 

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 05:41 AM

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Incidentally, though I don't have the link anymore, Christopher(?) once pointed me at a clever proof showing that magnetism automatically emerges from the relativistic equations for electric charge. It's not a separate thing.


That was actually how I got taught magnetism in freshman calc; it's just statics dynamicized ;)

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